fuel cell

["Mark Van Osdel"]

I called Fuel Safe today and they have a Lotus Elan fuel cell part number. It is SA113. I described the picture sent by Tony V. and they agreed this was the same, 7 gallons in Aluminum with sender and remote filler. The list price is $715, but you can get a discount through some Fuel Safe dealers. You can use 1-800-433-6524 to verify, purchase, or get the name of your local retailer.

Mark VanOsdel

[Bullitt3]

If there are several of us who truly want to buy the Fuel Safe Cell,
perhaps we should try for a significant discount on a group buy. How
about a count of all who want to buy at the roughly $700 price
level. Please e-mail me and in a week or so, I'll try to get a
favorable quote.

On the subject of fuel tanks, my 1970 S4 came with a +2 fuel tank,
filler, "catch/overflow can", etc. Tank sits between the shock
towers. P.O. swore it was untouched from the factory. Anyone else
out there with this strange build? I figure that Lotus was out of
regular Elan tanks when my car was built.

Bob Layman

[tmr]

Mark:

I'm not quite sure you have the right cell. Fuel Safe manufactures a
Lotus Seven cell that is about that capacity that is a stock item in
their catalog. Tony has purchased some of these for his Caterhams, I
believe. The OEM Elan tank is about ~10-12 gallons, I think. The
Fuel Safe cell I have has the same exterior dimensions as the OEM
tank, but loses about a gallon or so due to the bladder, etc. Tony,
any thoughts on this?

Tom

--- In lotuselan@y..., "Mark Van Osdel" <markvo@h...> wrote:

agreed this was the same, 7 gallons in Aluminum with sender and
remote filler. The list price is $715, but you can get a discount
through some Fuel Safe dealers. You can use 1-800-433-6524 to verify,
purchase, or get the name of your local retailer.

[elancoupe]

My Fuel Safe cell holds 10 gallons, is the same physical dimension as stock


Mike B

["Mark Van Osdel"]

Thanks for bringing this up. I will call Fuel Safe tomorrow and find out for
sure. I'll try to get an email address so I can send a picture. 7 gallons
did sound small, but the Fuel Safe engineer did describe the tank pretty
well.
Mark
----- Original Message -----


Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 8:05 PM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: fuel cell


Mark:

I'm not quite sure you have the right cell. Fuel Safe manufactures a
Lotus Seven cell that is about that capacity that is a stock item in
their catalog. Tony has purchased some of these for his Caterhams, I
believe. The OEM Elan tank is about ~10-12 gallons, I think. The
Fuel Safe cell I have has the same exterior dimensions as the OEM
tank, but loses about a gallon or so due to the bladder, etc. Tony,
any thoughts on this?

Tom

--- In lotuselan@y..., "Mark Van Osdel" <markvo@h...> wrote:

agreed this was the same, 7 gallons in Aluminum with sender and
remote filler. The list price is $715, but you can get a discount
through some Fuel Safe dealers. You can use 1-800-433-6524 to verify,
purchase, or get the name of your local retailer.








reserved.

[kstrutt1]

For those that can't afford the fuel cell the +2 system would be a
significant safety improvement, I have seen pictures of a couple of
+2's in big accidents but in each case this area is undamaged.
Also this was where Leyland choose to put the fuel tank on the xjs and
TR7 when designing them to meet the mid 70's crash legislation.

As a further advantage it would put the weight nearer the centre of
the car immproving handling as well.( a full tank of fuel weighs
around 70 lb).

Kevin +2S130


--- In lotuselan@y..., ***@***.***e:

[tvacc]

First< i will change my preferences on this list to get the messages right
away...as I now digest these...

Gosh..it is nice to see that all that work I did way back when is finally
being used...I tried and tried back then to get other Elan owners to do this
and hardly had anyone else (except Tom Roberds, I think)took advantage of
it...Hope you all do get a discount from the dealer..otherwise they are
quite expensive.

I will also copy this to Bill Rabel..as he apparently does not subscribe to
this list (just the lotus list I suspect) for his comment as he has one of
my cars and tanks..Doug Chadwick has another and Jim Gordon in Virginia has
a third...dont remember where the 4th is.. Neither Doug nor Jim do much of
the "list" thing.

Few things..

The stock Elan Tank is 8 us Gal...no question..absolutly sure...100 %....not
the least doubt in my mind. Believe me..I filled and emptyed those tanks
many times...the first ones went back to fuel safe a bunch of times for
revisons..4-5 times as I recall....There is no question that the stock tank
from the factory is 8 US gal. If yours is more...than somebody modified the
tank....

I never experienced much of a loss in capacity in any tank I did from the
foam filler....not the elan tanks nor the Caterham tanks..if there was a
loss..it was small..less than 1 quart..

Yes, Fuel Safe does sell a Lotus 7 cell...(I am sure they copyied mine when
I sent it in..). Back then...they did not have an Elan tank on their
list..perhaps they do now...I was surprised to hear that the had an Elan
Tank...though I suspect that they are quoting the Seven Tank..like I
said...Fuel Safe appears to sometimes misquote or misidentify a tank at
times...this probably being caused I suspect by the large number of tanks
they make.

If somebody actually lives near them..I would take a stock tank over
there...have them copy it...including the angle on the filler neck...and
finally keep a record of the dimensions...also if there are any engineers
with a CAD program...I am sure they can follow a drawing.

Now..it is possible that the last 2 elan tanks I did are 7 gal...or at least
not quite 8 gal..(and that may be where they are getting the
measurements...I did tell them to make a copy of the tank and that I was
telling other Elan owners)...as I did shorten the height to accommodate the
senders...and a peice of plywood...so that the tank ended up being the same
height as the other side where the spare is..Bill R....What is the capacity
of the tank that is in the 72 Elan?....


.If I was to do it again..I would leave out the spare..(who needs it these
days anyways...) and make a tank that went all the way across the
car...leaving a small area for a tool pouch..you would end up with a crusing
range of 500 miles or so...


Anyway...as far as the wiring goes...you do need to run more wires..there is
a power off the ignition..a gauge wire...a ground (which can come from the
back of the car, although I always just ran it from the front) and on some
senders..a connection for a low level warning light.)I never hooked up the
low level warning light..Remember ...you have to use their gauge...not the
stock one...and it is adjustable.

If I can help you guys with anything else...let me know...Like I said..I
spent a lot of time and money on these tanks...may as well take advantage of
it.


Tony Vaccaro
93 Caterham
A lot of Elans...all in the past.

[elancoupe]

The stock Elan Tank is 8 us Gal...no question..absolutly sure...100 %....not
the least doubt in my mind. Believe me..


Interesting. My stock tank held 10 gallons, my Spyder steel tank held 10 gallons and so does my Fuel Safe cell.

MIke B

[tvacc]

Must not write these things when I am not awake...

Yes..Mike you are right..With you saying it...It must be 10 gal....I
was getting confused with my 7 Cells..

So I repeat..10 gal...no question.no doubt...but that also means
that the guy on the list is being quoted the Seven cell...Wrong cell.

Somebody will have to send them an old tank to make a cell.

Boy...blows my credibilty out the window...but honest guys..I do
know what I am talking about..usually..at least when I am awake..not
used to getting up at 5 am

Hey...when you get old...you forget...get confused

I also posted a picture of my 72 Elan Tank that Bill Rabel has now..

It is on http://www.lotusowners.com On the Repairs/Upgrades Link..

Tony Vaccaro..just waking up

[Elan45]

Tony,

I thoought 8 sounded aufully small. I just looked in the Elan manual and itlists capacity for S1-3 cars as 10 gal (12 US gal) and S4 as 9-1/4 gal (11US gallon). I have a totally stock system, except that the plastic fuel line was replaced by copper tube during rebuild, 15 years ago. Going up to the SCCA runoffs, I topped off with 9.6 gallon in my S3-Super Safety. I had some problems several years ago that the bottom half of the tank could not be consummed, because the pick-up tube inside the tank had either fractured or rusted a pin hole, so the pump could not suck the fuel out below that point. Could your pick-up tube have been defective and that's why you remember 8 gallon capacity. By the way, I've owned 6 S2 and S3 Elans so I know this is a stock tank.

What does the can of the cell look like. Is it welded together? Where is the removeable panel to insert the cell into the box and how is it retained. If I were going to do one, I would probably want to copy the same sort of construction as the original, with the recessed sides. This would provide a flange where the side could be rivited or screw together with no screws "pointing" at the cell's bag. One could also allow for a flange at the top surface which would also conform to an acceptable screw arrangement.

Roger


First< i will change my preferences on this list to get the messages right
away...as I now digest these...

Gosh..it is nice to see that all that work I did way back when is finally
being used...I tried and tried back then to get other Elan owners to do this
and hardly had anyone else (except Tom Roberds, I think)took advantage of
it...Hope you all do get a discount from the dealer..otherwise they are
quite expensive.

I will also copy this to Bill Rabel..as he apparently does not subscribe to
this list (just the lotus list I suspect) for his comment as he has one of
my cars and tanks..Doug Chadwick has another and Jim Gordon in Virginia has
a third...dont remember where the 4th is.. Neither Doug nor Jim do much of
the "list" thing.

Few things..

The stock Elan Tank is 8 us Gal...no question..absolutly sure...100 %....not
the least doubt in my mind. Believe me..I filled and emptyed those tanks
many times...the first ones went back to fuel safe a bunch of times for
revisons..4-5 times as I recall....There is no question that the stock tank
from the factory is 8 US gal. If yours is more...than somebody modified the
tank....

I never experienced much of a loss in capacity in any tank I did from the
foam filler....not the elan tanks nor the Caterham tanks..if there was a
loss..it was small..less than 1 quart..

Yes, Fuel Safe does sell a Lotus 7 cell...(I am sure they copyied mine when
I sent it in..). Back then...they did not have an Elan tank on their
list..perhaps they do now...I was surprised to hear that the had an Elan
Tank...though I suspect that they are quoting the Seven Tank..like I
said...Fuel Safe appears to sometimes misquote or misidentify a tank at
times...this probably being caused I suspect by the large number of tanks
they make.

If somebody actually lives near them..I would take a stock tank over
there...have them copy it...including the angle on the filler neck...and
finally keep a record of the dimensions...also if there are any engineers
with a CAD program...I am sure they can follow a drawing.

Now..it is possible that the last 2 elan tanks I did are 7 gal...or at least
not quite 8 gal..(and that may be where they are getting the
measurements...I did tell them to make a copy of the tank and that I was
telling other Elan owners)...as I did shorten the height to accommodate the
senders...and a peice of plywood...so that the tank ended up being the same
height as the other side where the spare is..Bill R....What is the capacity
of the tank that is in the 72 Elan?....


.If I was to do it again..I would leave out the spare..(who needs it these
days anyways...) and make a tank that went all the way across the
car...leaving a small area for a tool pouch..you would end up with a crusing
range of 500 miles or so...


Anyway...as far as the wiring goes...you do need to run more wires..there is
a power off the ignition..a gauge wire...a ground (which can come from the
back of the car, although I always just ran it from the front) and on some
senders..a connection for a low level warning light.)I never hooked up the
low level warning light..Remember ...you have to use their gauge...not the
stock one...and it is adjustable.

If I can help you guys with anything else...let me know...Like I said..I
spent a lot of time and money on these tanks...may as well take advantage of
it.


Tony Vaccaro
93 Caterham
A lot of Elans...all in the past.


















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[griffo]

For those of you that have fitted a fuel safe tank to a Elan S2, S3, S4, did
you have problems fitting the tank neck to the original filler tube or did
you have to modify it to fit?
Thanks
Peter Griffin 45/6406

[tvacc]

Yes...I agree...lon tank size....like I said...I shouldn't do this early in
the morn. I made a mistake...It is a 10 gal tank...and if what you say is
right..it might be 10.5 or 11...which is why with the foam I still could put
10gal into it.

No my pickup tube was not defective..just my memory..I have done so many
cells for both the Elan and Seven..I just got mixed up.

the can is welded together..smooth on the inside. The acess panel for the
Cell on mine was in the front of the can (where the orig. sending unit was
located) . They put a plate at the top for the fuel neck...the outlet...and
the level sensor...You can see a picture at http://www.lotusowners.com go
the Repairs/Upgrade section. that is the only picture I have. Perhaps I can
get Bill Rabel to take a few shots for the site.

I don't think the flange is necessary..in fact would probably increase the
cost of the can..as they charge by the hour for the can work...and that
would take a lot of extra time..

the inside of the can is completly smooth..so there is nothing protruding.
Have them send you some alum straps or are they Stainless...cant
remember...for mounting the can...

Tony Vaccaro

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:28 AM
To: ***@***.***; ***@***.***
Cc: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] RE: Fuel Safe Cells and Capacity


Tony,

I thoought 8 sounded aufully small. I just looked in the Elan manual and
it lists capacity for S1-3 cars as 10 gal (12 US gal) and S4 as 9-1/4 gal
(11 US gallon). I have a totally stock system, except that the plastic fuel
line was replaced by copper tube during rebuild, 15 years ago. Going up to
the SCCAr unoffs, I topped off with 9.6 gallon in my S3-Super Safety. I had
some problems several years ago that the bottom half of the tank could not
be consummed,b ecause the pick-up tube inside the tank had either fractured
or rusted a pin hole, so the pump could not suck the fuel out below that
point. Could yourp ick-up tube have been defective and that's why you
remember 8 gallon capacity. By the way, I've owned 6 S2 and S3 Elans so I
know this is a stock tank.

What does the can of the cell look like. Is it welded together? Where is
the removeable panel to insert the cell into the box and how is it retained.
If I were going to do one, I would probably want to copy the same sort of
construction as the original, with the recessed sides. This would provide af
lange where the side could be rivited or screw together with no screws
"pointing" at the cell's bag. One could also allow for a flange at the tops
urface which would also conform to an acceptable screw arrangement.

Roger


First< i will change my preferences on this list to get the messages right
away...as I now digest these...

Gosh..it is nice to see that all that work I did way back when is finally
being used...I tried and tried back then to get other Elan owners to do
this
and hardly had anyone else (except Tom Roberds, I think)took advantage of
it...Hope you all do get a discount from the dealer..otherwise they are
quite expensive.

I will also copy this to Bill Rabel..as he apparently does not subscribe
to
this list (just the lotus list I suspect) for his comment as he has one of
my cars and tanks..Doug Chadwick has another and Jim Gordon in Virginia
has
a third...dont remember where the 4th is.. Neither Doug nor Jim do much of
the "list" thing.

Few things..

The stock Elan Tank is 8 us Gal...no question..absolutly sure...100
%....not
the least doubt in my mind. Believe me..I filled and emptyed those tanks
many times...the first ones went back to fuel safe a bunch of times for
revisons..4-5 times as I recall....There is no question that the stock
tank
from the factory is 8 US gal. If yours ism ore...than somebody modified
the
tank....

I never experienced much of a loss in capacity in any tank I did from the
foam filler....not the elan tanks nor the Caterham tanks..if there was a
loss..it was small..less than 1 quart..

Yes, Fuel Safe does sell a Lotus 7 cell...(I am sure they copyied mine
when
I sent it in..). Back then...they did not have an Elan tank ont heir
list..perhaps they do now...I was surprised to hear that the had an Elan
Tank...though I suspect that they are quoting the Seven Tank..likeI
said...Fuel Safe appears to sometimes misquote or misidentify a tanka t
times...this probably being caused I suspect by the large number oft anks
they make.

If somebody actually lives near them..I would take a stock tank over
there...have them copy it...including the angle on the filler neck...and
finally keep a record of the dimensions...also if there are any engineers
with a CAD program...I am sure they can follow a drawing.

Now..it is possible that the last 2 elan tanks I did are 7g al...or at
least
not quite 8 gal..(and that may be where they are getting the
measurements...I did tell them to make a copy of the tank and that Iw as
telling other Elan owners)...as I did shorten the height to accommodate
the
senders...and a peice of plywood...so that the tank ended up being the
same
height as the other side where the spare is..Bill R....What is thec
apacity
of the tank that is in the 72 Elan?....


.If I was to do it again..I would leave out the spare..(who needs it these
days anyways...) and make a tank that went all the way across the
car...leaving a small area for a tool pouch..you would end up with a
crusing
range of 500 miles ors o...


Anyway...as far as the wiring goes...you do need to run more wires..there
is
a power off the ignition..a gauge wire...a ground (which can come from the
back of the car, although I always just ran it from the front) and on some
senders..a connection for a low level warning light.)I neverh ooked up the
low level warning light..Remember ...you have to use theirg auge...not the
stock one...and it is adjustable.

If I can help you guys with anything else...let me know...Like I said..I
spent a lot of time and money on these tanks...may as well take advantage
of
it.


Tony Vaccaro
93 Caterham
A lot of Elans...all in the past.









ToU nsubscribe: email ***@***.***


reserved.










**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify
the system manager.

This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.


**********************************************************************

[ervsch]

Bob/Kevin

My '70 S4 also has the gas tank vertical between the shock towers.
I'd just assumed that it was something the previous owner had done.
Other than making it safer in a rear-end accident, it sure gives me a
lot more room in the trunk.

So, anyone have any idea whether this was a factory "option" or a
latter modification?

Erv Schweiger
1970 S4

--- In lotuselan@y..., ***@***.***e:

[elancoupe]

----- Original Message -----
From: ***@***.***
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Elan Fuel Capacity, (goofed) and I posted a picture of tank....



So I repeat..10 gal...no question.no doubt...but that also means
that the guy on the list is being quoted the Seven cell...Wrong cell.

Somebody will have to send them an old tank to make a cell.



I bought my cell through Dave Bean, as he had a few made up back then. I would imagine that his pattern would be on file with Fuel Safe.

Mike B

[tvacc]

I doubt that Fuel Safe will have the design on file..In my dealings with
them..they had to guided through every step, no matter how many times they
had done it before. And I mean every step...every detail.... I get the
impression that unless the purchaser is willing to pay for the time to
document the tank size..they are unlikely to do so. Perhaps Dave Bean did
pay to have it documented...but I think that Fuel Safe would protect his
design( as he sells them )and not make it available to anyone but Dave
Bean.

It wouldn't hurt to ask Harold Lawrence, the guy in the sports car dept at
Fuel Safe, he should know..I just would not take it as a given and then get
the wrong tank, or the wrong fittings..location of inlet..outlet..etc

You have to be very exact with Fuel Safe,

As an example..if you look on http://www.lotusowners.com and go to the
repairs page..and look at the pictures of the AUX tank for tmy Seven...
I specifially told them to only make the extension area (the cardboard area
in the first photos)as big a needed to acommodate the filler and the
vent...and to only make the little bulge for the sender unit..(at the top of
the tank in the center) big enough for the sender..Well...they made them the
size I made the cardboard template...even though I told them that it did NOT
have to be that big that it was only a guide as to the max space
available...not to exceed that space..

they made as it is shown...and I have needlessly wasted boot space...

You have to be very exact with them...I thought I was and did not get
exactly what I wanted.....

Tony Vaccaro



RE:

I bought my cell through Dave Bean, as he had a few made up back then. I
would imagine that his pattern would be on file with Fuel Safe.

Mike B