Rubber donuts

[neilslade]

Eat donuts.

Just thought I would give my opinion on this having just been through the ordeal- it was time to replace the donuts on my 65 S2 Elan (now at original 15,000 well maintained miles) after spotting a few tiny cracks around the bolt holes.

After hearing that the replacement CV joint option would cost me $1500, I opted for the Sprint donuts (D. Bean) and I recruited the help of a boni fide Elan expert from our local Lotus club ( and this guy IS an expert). It took us ( mostly him) FIVE HOURS, to get these stupid things in place even with two of us at it. . It was of little consolation that the same system was used in the LeMans winning Ford GT-40.

While doing the operation, it was obvious that the diferential seals were leaking, and as we did not have another spare 2 or more hours to replace these seals- which my friend tells me is a REALLY big job- I was dismayed to learn that to get to them would again require removing all the donuts all over again. No way.

I should have put the CV joints on my charge card. My expert friend tells me that the CV joints will last almost forever, and are a snap to put in compared with the donuts-- which were a bitch EVEN considering that we had the car on a LIFT the whole time. I had a number of bolts that needed replacement, as well as at one point having to actually cut off a donut bolt because the damn threads were binding and we couldn't get it perfectly tight. Had my friend not had a complete garage with every tool imaginable, and a large stockpile of the exact size bolts we needed, I would have been sunk. This was insane and prehistoric engineering. Screw originality. Go CVs.

PS-- It was suggested by my mechanic that a temporary cure for the leaking dif seals was to use automatic transmission fluid conditioner, which will soften the seals and hopefully slow down the leakage so it does not become a major problem. Automatic trans. fluid conditioner is close enough to the considstency of the dif gear oil.

Neil Slade

[Arno Church]

Neil Slade wrote:
After hearing that the replacement CV joint option would cost me $1500,

Are these CV joint replacements double CV per side or are they the Thompson or Spyder type that retains one donut per side?
Who sells these CV joint replacements?
Lastly, I am in the process of doing my own CV joint replacements using adapter plates, Lobro CV's and drive shafts made up of two Golf (Rabbit) shafts each side.
I know of two Lotus 23 replicas locally (Cape Town) using this arrangement very successfully.
$1500 seems a lot (converted to R105000 local currency)
4 Lobros would cost $140 + $40 for Dural adapters (material only) and $30 for the driveshafts - machining I do myself
Arno

[elj221c]

Neil, it isn't all bad! I have just looked at my 'service history'
and, although my car has been off the road for lots of years, I did a
full chassis change with all 'wearing out' things replaced in 1982,
and the new rotoflexes ( donuts ) lasted 299571 miles before I
replaced them! A couple were kept as spares...just in case, as I am
sure i am nit the only one to have one fail in an inoportune moment.
And, yes, I have changed one at the side of the road! Two
long 'Jubilee' clips and a bit of swearing always helps!

Just think of all the stress NOT being put into the diff mounts,
tie rods, and so on. And the expense!!!!


--- In ***@***.***, "Neil Slade" <neil@n...> wrote:

Elan (now at original 15,000 well maintained miles) after spotting a
few tiny cracks around the bolt holes.

help of a boni fide Elan expert from our local Lotus club ( and this
guy IS an expert). It took us ( mostly him) FIVE HOURS, to get these
stupid things in place even with two of us at it. . It was of little
consolation that the same system was used in the LeMans winning Ford
GT-40.

hours to replace these seals- which my friend tells me is a REALLY
big job- I was dismayed to learn that to get to them would again
require removing all the donuts all over again. No way.

to put in compared with the donuts-- which were a bitch EVEN
considering that we had the car on a LIFT the whole time. I had a
number of bolts that needed replacement, as well as at one point
having to actually cut off a donut bolt because the damn threads were
binding and we couldn't get it perfectly tight. Had my friend not had
a complete garage with every tool imaginable, and a large stockpile
of the exact size bolts we needed, I would have been sunk. This was
insane and prehistoric engineering. Screw originality. Go CVs.

conditioner, which will soften the seals and hopefully slow down the
leakage so it does not become a major problem. Automatic trans.
fluid conditioner is close enough to the considstency of the dif gear
oil.

["Alan Andrea"]

No question, the donuts are a pain to replace. My best results have been obtained by using a large hose clamp wrapped around the circumference of the donut and tightening very securely before removal. It helps if this is done while the rear suspension is as level as possible so as to reduce distortion of the donut. Reinstallation is much easier because the clamp limits the amount the donut can expand when all the bolts are removed. Again it also helps to reinstall with the suspension as level as possible to eliminate some of the need to twist the donuts and force the bolts through.

Regards,

Alan Andrea

[elj221c]

I think I ment 29571 miles! Even my old S2 hasn't been as far as I
suggested. I also have to confess to earlier practice with Hillman
Imps! (Rootes/Chrysler)


--- In ***@***.***, "Alan Andrea" <aracer@e...> wrote:

circumference of the donut and tightening very securely before
removal. It helps if this is done while the rear suspension is as
level as possible so as to reduce distortion of the donut.
Reinstallation is much easier because the clamp limits the amount the
donut can expand when all the bolts are removed. Again it also helps
to reinstall with the suspension as level as possible to eliminate
some of the need to twist the donuts and force the bolts through.

[gobw2]

Put conditioner in the rear axle, and me thinks you will be rebuilding
the rear soon. George
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:16:48 -0700 "Neil Slade" <***@***.***>
writes:

["William \" Ski]

15,000 well maintained miles) after spotting a >few tiny cracks around the
bolt holes.

Neal....

If you are going to replace the donuts with a few tiny cracks you may be
doing it again in a few years. With any use at all the cracks will appear
very quickly. My current donuts showed minor separation within the first
year. That was ten years and ~150K miles ago and they are still working
fine. The level of comfort probably has a lot to do with how hard the car
is driven. I don't push mine very hard, back and forth to work and an
occasional autocross. Have used only four sets in ~500K miles.

Skip King

'69 Elan S4SE
'61 Seven S2

Measure it with a micrometer
Mark it with a pencil
Cut it with an ax

[cliveyboy]

A trick I use for replacing Donuts is to use a jubilee clip round the
Rotoflex but I also use a couple of bars the same size as the bolts with a
long taper on them to help locate the holes (this replaces the screwdriver
method)I then tighten or loosen the jubilee to get the final alignment of
the holes and remove the bar (or podger) and insert the bolt.I find it saves
so much time.
I too practiced on Hillman Imps so when it came to lotus donuts I was well
prepared.
Cliveyboy


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[Dag-Henning]

Neil, changing dif seals can't be that bad . Have just placed my dif on the bench ( - quicker than trying to perform from under the car I believe! ),I found my seals to be rock hard too, probably been sitting there 36 years! As I am without a shop-manual, can anyone that has got one tell me if you are adviced to pre-heat the aluminium before extracting the shaft/bearings and seals ? - like with the waterpump bearing ?
Thanks,
Dag
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-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: Neil Slade <***@***.***>
Til: ***@***.*** <***@***.***>
Dato: 21. november 2000 20:20
Emne: [LotusElan.net] Rubber donuts

[Richard Spelberg]

Need a workshop Manual?
Try:

---- http://www.lotus-books.com -----




Dag Henning Nielsen schrieb:

[Elan45]

WOW! You've got 500K miles in an Elan. That's got to be some kind of record.

Roger


15,000 well maintained miles) after spotting a >few tiny cracks around the
bolt holes.

Neal....

If you are going to replace the donuts with a few tiny cracks you may be
doing it again in a few years. With any use at all the cracks will appear
very quickly. My current donuts showed minor separation within the first
year. That was ten years and ~150K miles ago and they are still working
fine. The level of comfort probably has a lot to do with how hard the car
is driven. I don't push mine very hard, back and forth to work and an
occasional autocross. Have used only four sets in ~500K miles.

Skip King

'69 Elan S4SE
'61 Seven S2

Measure it with a micrometer
Mark it with a pencil
Cut it with an ax

["Paul Savill"]

Roy rote:


Now. That IS a record...
I once managed to get a set of donuts round the block without a problem

Paul Savill

[elj221c]

Paul,

Hopefully you saw my subsequent correction! 29,571 was the correct
number. They are still on the car, but it has been 'stored' this last
11 years, so they might be a bit hard by now!




--- In ***@***.***, "Paul Savill" <paul.savill@r...> wrote:

[rodney]

I thought my 150k was a far amount in 30 years compared to some that reckon
that they have only 15k on the clock, but 500k WOW. Who said lotuses are
fragile.

Rod

ps I agree about the donuts.

Rodney Stevens
CSIRO Minerals
http://minerals.csiro.au

Ph. 61 2 97106701
Fax 61 2 97106789

Elan SS s/e 45/7616
http://sites.netscape.net/rodjohnstevens/homepage

-----Original Message-----
From: William " Skip" King [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Wednesday, 22 November 2000 4:52 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] Rubber donuts



15,000 well maintained miles) after spotting a >few tiny cracks around the
bolt holes.

Neal....

If you are going to replace the donuts with a few tiny cracks you may be
doing it again in a few years. With any use at all the cracks will appear
very quickly. My current donuts showed minor separation within the first
year. That was ten years and ~150K miles ago and they are still working
fine. The level of comfort probably has a lot to do with how hard the car
is driven. I don't push mine very hard, back and forth to work and an
occasional autocross. Have used only four sets in ~500K miles.

Skip King

'69 Elan S4SE
'61 Seven S2

[TimMullen]

Neil Slade wrote:

I hope you do mean "exact size" bolt and not just the same length. It is my
understanding that the bolts are "special" and you need to ensure that the
unthreaded portions are the same diameters and lengths as the original bolts.
The bolts are subjected to shearing loads as well as tension (tightening)
loads. This is something that I'd want to make sure is correct...

Tim Mullen

Chantilly, VA
72 Elan Sprint