Looking through the data in the registry, we are suffering from some cars with information that doesn't make sense, a S4 Roadster for example. In an attempt to control the entries to something more reasonable I am thinking of limiting the choices given to two from the current four.

I'm thinking something like

Choice 1 - Year
Choice 2 - Model, where model would equate to the Series, Model and Type from the current registry. I would limit the choices to those that were available in the model year selected.

For example, model year 1966 would be limited to

"Elan Series 2"
"Elan Series 2 S/E"
"Elan Coupe, generally referred to as a S3 FHC"
"Elan Series 3 or S3 DHC"
"Elan Series 3 Special Equipment or S3 S/E DHC"

I would translate that into, S2 Roadster Type 26 etc.

Information would come from Robinshaw & Ross which is also on the LotusElan.net home page link and link


What do you think?

Jim,
I'm sorry I wrote my post on the other registry thread prior to reading this one. I think you are right on to limit them to choices that work within the real world possibilities. How can I help?
Ross

To be real finicky, Jim, 1972/3 should allow 'Sprint 5' !
Although I guess quite a few earlier cars have been later fitted with a 5 speed, and we now have the possibility of Sprint 6 (or other 6)!
Gordon

The year-model validation can be a bit tricky since the year of registration may not be the same as the year of manufacture. E.g., my S2, built in July '65, is registered as a '66. This particular case wouldn't break the validation but others might.

Once the validations are set up, can they be run against the existing data to identify entries that are incorrect?

Ross volunteered to fix some of the data problems and has made a first pass through the data to get things a little cleaner before I get the validation complete. When I get the rules complete, I'll run some reports and look for problems in the rules and the data.

I'll allow an "other" option that will send a note off to the admin(s) who can work to clarify what should be entered. I don't expect a lot of those problems but it will allow someone who has a car that is an edge case, or just doesn't know, to enter information.

Great idea!

Rod

Brain fade or something caused me to quote and comment on the wrong message.

Jim, I meant to say that the "other" option is a great idea.

Rod

Hi, Andrew's comment about how cars are registered when sold in the US.---My Elan was registered as a 67 and that was how I referred it as to the year. Later, I was able to contact a Lotus guy (don't have his name here) but he gave me all the info on my Elan and it came off the assembly line in mid 66 and I was able to change all of my info on this site and Jim's registry without any problems. I'll look for the source of that info and post it.

Sarto

Jim,

Because of the year of registration can be different from year of manufacture and either is correct, I would offer that everything come off the chassis number. I can only think of one S2 roadster that has a chassis number 45-xxxx, and that was a repair issue. So, the first item to enter is the chassis number, then you are offered the choices of whether the car is an S/E or not. No need at that point to offer S2 or S3 and that comnfusion. I was told by the seller of my car in 1974 that it was an S2 and only by reading the shop manual was I able to determine it was the strange case of a S3-SS. He had always had problems ordering parts from Lotus East because he incorrectly called it a S2.

I realize that not all chassis numbers followed along chronologically. If you look at Frank's Sports Car World chassis list, you can see Elans were manufactured in spurts and the next number in line might have been produced 2 months earlier. Why, we will probably never know. Logical???

Roger

Speaking now of Type 26 Elans only, there was a point at which the chassis number and the unit number became the same but before that, the chassis plate showed separate numbers for the chassis, the body and the unit (the number given to the the car after x-body was joined to x-chassis). I have such a car (a 1963 S1). I had always referred to it by chassis number until I learned that the published model change references list the unit number only. The unit number of my car fit in quite well with the model change references but the chassis number did not.

See http://www.type26register.com/

Rod

So Rod, perhaps the order should then be unit number and if no unit number exists or if it is the same as chassis number, then the chassis number rules to establish an order.

Or perhaps, the order should just be the chassis number, with the unit number included for reference, to determine the change points or checking the accuracy of the change points. I've always held that those change points were put into manuals and parts books years after the actual changes occurred and are just someone's best guess of when something occurred. For instance the SS sub-model was supposed to start on 45-7400. My SS is 7380 and there are SS cars at least 100 numbers prior to mine.

Although there is a parts book for the S1-S2-Coupe, there is a long gap from the S1 shop manual to the final version which includes S4 and Sprint. There was never a manual for the S3. All the changes until the final Elan manual was published must have been covered in individual notices, such as the one I've seen on this site for the electric window cable repair. Must have been fun being a Lotus technician in 1966- 69. No wonder all Elans after S1s were thought of as S2s.

Roger

Roger,

I believe there will always be a unit number shown on the car regardless of series, type or year. That's the number that should be used to identify a particular car because it represents the "as delivered" body and chassis combination.

As you say, the manuals don't tell the whole story. If I'm going to use the manual as a reference for work on the car, I like the early Type 26 manual best because it seems to give me more information than the later, supposedly all inclusive, manual that covers all Elans, more or less.

In a way, the detective work we all do to figure our cars out can be part of their charm. I've been through enough Lotus mysteries during my 42 years of Lotus ownership to educate me beyond the reach of the manuals. Of course, these days, we have some excellent books and forums to assist us.

Rod

Avoiding for now the discussion of Unit Number vs Chassis numbers, this is the selection criteria I've been able to glean from the various sources. There will be an option for someone to enter "Other". Please have a look and let me know if it is close enough.

One someone selects the year, they will be given the options show below the year. The various fields in the database will be filled on as show in the parenthesis.

Type = Type Number
Series = Elan 1500|Elan 1600|S1|S2|S3/S4|Sprint|26R
Variant = Roadster|Race|FHC-Preairflow|FHC|DHC

1963
Elan 1500 ( Type 26 Elan 1500 Roadster )
Elan 1600 ( Type 26 S1 Roadster )
Racing Version ( Type 26 26R Race )

1964
Roadster 1600 ( Type 26 S1 Roadster )
Roadster S2 ( Type 26 S2 Roadster )
Racing Version ( Type 26 26R Race )

1965
Roadster S2 ( Type 26 S2 Roadster )
Coupe S3 Pre-Airflow ( Type 36 S3 FHC-preairflow )
Racing Version ( Type 26 26R Race )

1966
Roadster S2 ( Type 26 S2 Roadster )
Roadster S2 S/E ( Type 26 S2 S/E Roadster )
Coupe S3 Pre-Airflow ( Type 36 FHC-preairflow )
Coupe S3 Airflow ( Type 36 S3 FHC )
Drophead S3 DHC ( Type 45 S3 DHC )
Drophead S3 S/E DHC ( Type 45 S3 S/E DHC )
Racing Version ( Type 26 26R Race )

1967
Coupe S3 ( Type 36 S3 FHC )
Coupe S3 S/E ( Type 36 S3 FHC )
Drophead S3 ( Type 45 S3 DHC )
Drophead S3 S/E ( Type 45 S3 S/E DHC )

1968
Coupe S3 ( Type 36 S3 FHC )
Coupe S3 S/E ( Type 36 S3 S/E FHC )
Coupe S4 ( Type 36 S4 FHC )
Coupe S4 S/E ( Type 36 S4 S/E FHC )
Drophead S3 DHC ( Type 45 S3 DHC )
Drophead S3 S/E DHC ( Type 45 S3 S/E DHC )
Drophead S4 DHC ( Type 45 S4 DHC )
Drophead S4 S/E DHC ( Type 45 S4 S/E DHC )

1969
Coupe S4 ( Type 36 S4 FHC )
Coupe S4 S/E ( Type 36 S4 S/E FHC )
Drophead S4 ( Type 45 S4 DHC )
Drophead S4 S/E ( Type 45 S4 S/E DHC )

1970
Coupe S4 ( Type 36 S4 FHC )
Coupe S4 S/E ( Type 36 S4 S/E FHC )
Drophead S4 ( Type 45 S4 DHC )
Drophead S4 S/E ( Type 45 S4 S/E DHC )
Coupe Sprint ( Type 36 Sprint FHC )
Drophead Sprint ( Type 45 Sprint DHC )

1971
Coupe S4 ( Type 36 S4 FHC )
Coupe S4 S/E ( Type 36 S4 S/E FHC )
Drophead S4 ( Type 45 S4 DHC )
Drophead S4 S/E ( Type 45 S4 S/E DHC )
Coupe Sprint ( Type 36 Sprint FHC )
Drophead Sprint ( Type 45 Sprint DHC )

1972
Coupe S4 ( Type 36 S4 FHC )
Coupe S4 S/E ( Type 36 S4 S/E FHC )
Drophead S4 ( Type 45 S4 DHC )
Drophead S4 S/E ( Type 45 S4 S/E DHC )
Coupe Sprint ( Type 36 Sprint FHC )
Drophead Sprint ( Type 45 Sprint DHC )

1973
Coupe S4 ( Type 36 S4 FHC )
Coupe S4 S/E ( Type 36 S4 S/E FHC )
Drophead S4 ( Type 45 S4 DHC )
Drophead S4 S/E ( Type 45 S4 S/E DHC )
Coupe Sprint ( Type 36 Sprint FHC )
Drophead Sprint ( Type 45 Sprint DHC )

Jim

Well done, brilliant job.

Re 1971,72 & 73. No S4s were produced by the factory in 1972 or 1973 so I suggest you delete them from the list. Only Sprints were produced in those years. I know some owners of 1970 S4s will say they are 1971, but that will be based on their first registration. Having said that, I do know of a handful of S4s that were produced in 1971, which is why I have not included that year in my suggestion.

Let me know if I can be of any further help.

Tim