Lotus Elan

Alternative pedal boxes ( Tilton anyone?)

PostPost by: 661 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:16 am

I'm looking to fit a fully adjustable pedal box to my 26GTS
Ankle injuries mean I have to get the pedal spacing just right for heel and toe changes.(including pedal heights)
I'll need a bias bar too.
I like the look of the Tilton products but wonder if anyone has tried sizing them up in an Elan and, indeed , any success with using one?
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:41 pm

Hi Graeme

I'm also looking into this for my LHD car, but (ideally) plan to fit an overhead tandem brake master cylinder with a rear proportioning valve, in order to get more space for the exhaust manifold, extra heat insulation and a safer location for the master cylinders.

I'm going to seek advice from my local HTP inspectors first as their opinions are seem to take priority over the App. K (which is silent on this).

I had a look at the Tilton information but found the drawings tricky to comprend without an Elan body at hand to measure.

My search for an overhead (above the feet) solution took me to 3 options :
- Elan +2 version
- MGB pedal box (4 synchro pedals seem best)
- Caterham solution

The +2 and MGB pedal boxes would need (for a tandem system) to have either remote or the Caterham AP tandem master cylinder to give adequate bonnet clearance.

Both the MGB and Caterham solutions are also available with a balance bar (for the MGB ask the BCV8 championship competitors as to who the supplier is).

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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:17 pm

Keep in mind that a system with two master cylinders in parallel will lead to substantially greater pedal force required to achieve the same level of braking. Without going to smaller bore master cylinders the pedal force will double.
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PostPost by: prezoom » Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:32 pm

I would agree, excep: The S Series Elans use a single (without servo) .70" master for Type 14 front and original rear calipers. My Plus2 arrived with no servos and its standard large bore master for a Type 16 front and standard to all real calipers. Pedal pressure was a two 2 foot operation. Switched to a dual 11/16", very close the single .70", from a Datsun/Sunny, and the pedal pressure is quite reasonable. However, with an adjustable bias between the masters, it may be preferable to downsize to 5/8" masters to achieve what one thinks as reasonable foot/leg pressure. YMMV. I did notice a Mk1 Cortina, without servo, using the same 11/16" master while at the Queens English car show last Sunday. Did not get the opportunity to talk to him at the time to see how he liked the change. Should also state the fronts lock before the rears with the new master.
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:36 am

Thank you for these observations on pedal pressure (I'm the one who is planning to use a tandem system).

I will see if I can find a 0.7" tandem and combine this with a AP twin bore proportioning valve. I have no plans to cart a servo around !
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PostPost by: 661 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:26 am

There is,of course, the tried and tested TTR version. I cant recall what size master cylinders Eddie said they use.
On a RHD car we obviously dont need to give the same consideration to the exhaust system, but at least your remote reservoirs can be plced closer.
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PostPost by: Fredtech » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:24 am

Graeme. I spent some time looking at options for Brake-Bias last year, before finally deciding to go with one from Paul at Kelvadon.

Couple of things not mentioned previously, that are worth considering.

1. It’s a tight fit getting a Bias Box in. You have to move the whole assembly further outboard, away from the steering column, or the connecting block that connects the upper and lower sections, will touch the pedal-box assy, when the steering is turned.
2. Moving the whole assy further outboard means the space to fit 3 master cylinders is now tight, if fitting them in the engine bay. Most seem to get round this by using shorter AP Master cylinder’s Its still too tight to get the outer most master in though, the clutch in my case, so we had to make a cut-out in the wheel-well.

Couple of pictures I took when looking at what others had used and done, before I took the plunge myself. Might be useful.
Attachments
img_0021-2.jpg and
Possibly a TILTON Type, with the Cylinders in the Engine-Bay
img_0014.jpg and
Think this might be a TILTON type, with the Cylinders inside the car/foot-well
kelv-7.jpg and
Pat Thomas's car. Steering Column not fitted, so its not apparent how close this fits to the actual Pedal-Box.
kelv-6.jpg and
Pat Thomas's car. Girling Masters fitted, cutout required in the wheel-well to make the outermost (Clutch) fit.
img_0055.jpg and
Diffirence in length of the original Girling and AP Type master Cylinders
img_0061.jpg and
Paul Toomb's car last year. Kelvadon type. Note the spacers required to make it fit at the top o of the pedal box mounting.
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PostPost by: denicholls2 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:28 pm

The bottom photo spacers scare me a bit, particularly considering discussions about the overall strength of the body laminations in this area. The spacers add about an inch to the lever arm of the pedal on the fiberglass, not an insignificant amount. I'm hoping that the surrounding materials are capable of comfortably handling that load, as the alternative during hard braking isn't pretty. Worse still with the higher pedal effort of a twin master system.
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PostPost by: 661 » Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:34 pm

Fred,
That is incredibly good of you to post that detail. I think I may have to try and borrow some pedal boxes and size them up
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PostPost by: Fredtech » Tue May 01, 2018 5:14 pm

Hi No problem Graeme. Denic is correct with regard to strength in the mountings. I thought that as well, so have used strengthening where the pedal-box fits the Upper and Forward section of the body. We also ground down the upper & lower steering rack connecting block to help with the clearance.
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PostPost by: 661 » Wed May 02, 2018 11:42 am

I am aware that Raceworks use a different steering column, which I believe uses 2 U/J's so that they can place the steering wheel exactly where they want it, or perhaps it's also for the avoidance of the collapsible block fouling.
It looks like Pat's car has the reservoirs stuck out of the way in the drivers upper footwell.
Personally I think I'll put them in the engine bay above the ID plate.
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