Handling is bit iffy

[gsminors]

Now that I have been driving the +2 around the handling is not that good.
The car leans to the right by about 1". I have checked the coil mounts and they seem all okay. the car tries to stear it self from the rear especially over a bumpy surface on a corner it gets very interesting on a bumpy surface. What should I be check and replacing. I do have a new set of rear Koni strut inserts to go in. Should I also replace the springs as well?
Thanks for your help

[Hamish Coutts]

I would check the bottom the back suspenders thoroughly.
Start with the rear outer bushes. (you'll be doing these anyway, I hope, when you do the struts)
The bump steer may be the inner bushes on the A frames - check them as well.

Other caused may be:
Lotocones at the top of the struts. If these are gone it would let the strut change angle thus affecting the vertical wheel angle and making the rear end 'squidgy'.
Also check how tight the outer drive shafts are in their bearings. If they are loose, there can be a bit of movement - again a bit of wandering at the back end and also bump steer.

As for the low right hand side - it could be a weak spring. Try replacing the other bits & pieces (above) and if still low check the springs for tension and langth.
May also be worth getting the car on a flat piece of road and doing a few measurements to check whether the chassis is level and the body is not uneven - then it's not the springs but the mounting of the body on the chassis!

Any problems, post again - you're sure to get more advice from this forum!

Regards,

Hamish.

[type26owner]

Geoff.
What brand, type and size of tire and pressure(s) are you using? Are your shocks adjustable and what type single or double?

[gsminors]

Tire size is 175-70-13 Yokohama.
The new shocks are adjustable but they are not fitted yet.
When I checked the bushings for play they seemed okay. I will know better when I strip the rear end down. I have ordered new springs from Dave Bean Eng, not in stock but should be in a week. I will also order a new set of bushes as well.
Thanks for your help

[type26owner]

Geoff,
You're running a low performing tire with a speed rating of S or T and thin sidewalls. Keep it under 80 mph and drive like a little old lady and you'll be fine. Try pumping those puppies up to 50 psi and try it again. Our tire choices really sucks these days.

Try to find some reinforced sidewall tires in that size with at least an H speed rating. You've exceeded the performance of those tires is all. Quite easy to do with the Elan's capabilities.

[chrishewett]

I have a bit of an unsettled feeling on bumpy surfaces also which I have put down to worn rear inserts. This is why I am refurbing a set of rear struts with new inserts. I am hoping the heartstopping feeling when cornering at speed and hitting a bump will go away when they are fitted.
Chris

[type26owner]

Folks get fixated on the dampers when encountering bumps and instinctively set them stiffer. When on bumpy roads the dampers must be set to a less stiff rebound setting otherwise the suspension will do what's called 'jacking'. Jacking is the suspension collapsing all the way until you're in constant contact with the bumpstop. At that point the car will oversteer or understeer violently. This is very common for the unwary to encounter this effect. The problem is after the collision all evidence of this problem disappears. Anyone that goes through driver's school should get trained to recognize the symptoms.

[gsminors]

Just checked the chassis hight from one side to the other and that is also leaning to one side as well so I presume it is the coil length's I will do some more checks later. I will try and get the rear suspension apart this week.

[1964 S1]

My level sitting +2 bunny hops its butt around corners for the first few miles when I drive it after a long period of non use. My unknown brand of rear shocks are the reason. They're very bouncy with no absorbtion until I've been down the road a few miles. It's absolutely frightening. Also, that low corner/side affects many aspects of cornering in a negative fashion. Have you checked frame alignment?

[rgh0]

Spax shocks in my Elan rear struts take a few ( 3 or 4) strokes to build up to normal damping resistance after sitting for a few days. The Armstrong "Big Red" units in my plus 2 take about 1 stroke to build up resistance.

A good way to test if the rear suspension bushes are the problem is to drive on a smooth road and accelerate and lift of the throttle. Excessive play in the bushes will normally lead to a noticeable rear end steer effect as you do this. This is much more noticeable in a Plus 2 than Elan due to extra weight and longer suspension arms. Even a plus 2 with good bushes can exibit a small amount of rear steer with this test.

Rohan

[sk178ta]

50 psi on Yokos ??????? I know Americans would have you believe everything is bigger and better but I hope your "P"s are smaller. In the UK psi means pounds per square inch and 50 is about twice that recommended. 50 would give a very curved contact patch with alarmingly little grip, especially in the wet.

[type26owner]

sk178ta,
Yep, 50psi to partially overcome the very serious shortcoming of these types of tires which is they were designed provide a smooth ride but never be cornered hard. The sidewalls are way too thin. I've already explained why this is not all that dangerous in an earlier posting if you only leave the pressure in there for a few hours. Do not leave the pressure in there on a long term basis. This is only to done for a short period of time for testing the handling difference overinflating will introduce. Here's a link to explain why I'm advocating overinflating as a test. Any racer knows this stuff already and the last two sentences will substaniate my advice.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=1

The TireRack states the S and T speed rated tires are intended for use on 'Family Sedans & Vans'. Stop trying to use this type of tire as a performance tire when it was never designed for that purpose.

I'm quite knowledgable of the engineering aspects of the bias and radial tires. Poking holes through your argument is easy and obvious. Do you really want to do this on a subject I've spent a lot of time researching recently?

[thor]

So.. , Keith: I'll be wanting to put 165/80s on my wheels in a few months. Any good ideas as to which one?
The following are the ones I've found, all T-rated...

Firestone F590 Fuel Saver
Pirelli P3000
Goodyear GT2
BF GoodrichTouring

And, yes I know I'm being a bit silly here, but I'm never putting a japanese, french or german tyre on my Lotus, pure principle..
Don't drive fast enough for yokos anyway..

cheers,

[marcfuller]

... I'm never putting a japanese, french or german tyre on my Lotus ...

Well then, throw Firestone off your list. It is really Bridgestone America. Check it out - http://www.bridgestone-firestone.com/

[M100]

And, yes I know I'm being a bit silly here, but I'm never putting a japanese, french or german tyre on my Lotus, pure principle..

Ditto but (despite having an aversion to almost anything French) I make an exception for Michelins

Going back to the pressure issue, I ran my Sprint for quite a while on 155 x 13 Goodyear's (S rated) many years ago (they were a free swap from another car in the family that was going to be scrapped) At the time H rated tyres in that size had just vanished from the market. Inflated in the low to mid 20 psi region they coped just fine.

The only reason they got scrapped was a dispute I had with Goodyear over a defect on another tyre (just a small hatchback) that failed at speed - instant deflation and into a slow spin on a dual carriageway with slowing traffic in the left hand lane, no central barrier, a wide grass central reservation sloping away from my direction and heavy traffic travelling at 70 coming the other way. I came to rest just a few feet from hitting oncoming traffic.

Goodyear claimed no manufacturing defect in the first case and insisted I had hit an object at speed (as the only driver of that car since the tyres were fitted a few weeks before I know I didn't) But I couldn't have the tyre back for independent examination as it had been scrapped (how convenient)

A few weeks later the other tyre of the pair did a similar thing in slightly safer circumstances at around 10mph in a car park (the first case was a sidewall burst, the second was bead separation)

Not long after Nigel Mansell had his huge blowout in Adelaide and lost the F1 championship courtesy of Goodyear.

I've boycotted Goodyear tyres ever since.