Lotus Elan

New +2 zetec owner

PostPost by: TAS » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:33 pm

1919e397-3e31-4d25-bc18-966cd45eaa4a.jpeg and
Hi,

I have joined as I am now the proud new owner of a ‘68 +2 with a Spydercars zetec conversion. It’s the one that was discussed earlier this week in the for sale forum.

It’s 95% finished, it needs carpets and some fettling. I have loads of questions, the first being does the heater actually turn off in a plus 2? It’s like a sauna today, the weather not helping.

Tim
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PostPost by: JonB » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:39 pm

Hi Tim, congratulations on your purchase. I thought it was a good price as the car's had a lot done to it.

Regarding the heating, yes it is supposed to turn off, but the flaps in the heater box get worn out over time and the heater is always on. You can get cold air from the eyeball vents in the dash, but this is not enough. You will need to take the heater box out and overhaul it, it's a beast of a job by all accounts, so for now just fit a valve in the heater supply pipe.

Like I just did: elan-wanted-f4/heater-control-cables-t41469.html#p294932

Total cost, £14.

With this in place, you can shut off the heater's hot water supply and get more cold air into the car.
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PostPost by: TAS » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:02 pm

JonB wrote:Hi Tim, congratulations on your purchase. I thought it was a good price as the car's had a lot done to it.

Regarding the heating, yes it is supposed to turn off, but the flaps in the heater box get worn out over time and the heater is always on. You can get cold air from the eyeball vents in the dash, but this is not enough. You will need to take the heater box out and overhaul it, it's a beast of a job by all accounts, so for now just fit a valve in the heater supply pipe.

Like I just did: elan-wanted-f4/heater-control-cables-t41469.html#p294932

Total cost, £14.

With this in place, you can shut off the heater's hot water supply and get more cold air into the car.

Thanks Jon,

I will get something like that fitted. I had an early midget that had a very similar manual tap for summer...

I need to work out how to bleed the cooling system as well, it’s running hot now and was fine when I first looked at, I suspect it’s an airlock from googling hot zetec.
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PostPost by: JonB » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:08 pm

Take the cap off, fill, and try squeezing the top radiator hose repeatedly. You'll see some bubbles eventually.

Oh hang on, Zetec, not Twin Cam. Carry on... :?
1973 Elan Plus 2S 130/5 - UK - Chassis 50/1115L
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PostPost by: TAS » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:35 pm

I’ve just tried running with cap off and it’s still boiling up, I think I need to get the nose in the air and bleed it.

Failing that I guess I need to verify the temp gauge is actually correct.
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PostPost by: pauljones » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Tas,
Welcome to the group. Sussex i see. Theres going to be a few of us down south.
Nice car, nice price. Hope you enjoy it.

Paul
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:08 pm

Welcome to Elan.net and well done with your purchase.

As for the hot running, it’s most likely a sticky thermostat, the Zetec engines run a Raceline water rail which solves the problem of the thermostat being at the back of the engine tight against the bulkhead. You just need to undo the capscrews under the pressure cap filler neck, pop the stat out and replace. I use a 78 degree stat in mine.

You might notice on warmup that the temperature gauge rises quite quickly and almost goes into the red this is because the temperature sender is upstream of the thermostat and is nothing to worry about, it very quickly will go to normal once the stat opens.
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PostPost by: TAS » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:43 pm

Thanks Alan,

Is it a ford stat? I’ll get one tomorrow to try.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:44 pm

Hi Tim,
Yes it’s a Ford stat. The housing accepts the same stat as a lotus Twincam QTH100 82 degree or QTH102 88 degree. ( Quinton Hazel part numbers) ignore my 78 degree I was having brain fade when I wrote that. I would recommend the lower temperature or your fan will cut in every time you come to a halt.
Last edited by Spyder fan on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: TAS » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:03 pm

Perfect, thanks Alan

Tim
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PostPost by: prezoom » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:30 am

Not sure about the thermostats in the UK for the Zetec, but here in the US, they use a dual path unit with a valve that closes off a passage that routes the water to the water pump during the warm up period. When the water reaches operating temperature, the opening of the thermostat closes of the by pass route. This is done to keep water circulating during warm up so hot spots occur. I would go to a Ford dealership and see what type of thermostat is used in the car from which the engine came. The standard thermostat for the Zetecs here, is an 85c unit. My Plus2 Zetec conversion runs between 85 and 87c under all conditions, even here in the re-claimed desert.
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PostPost by: Bud English » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:57 am

There have been overheating problems related to the Raceline water rails for the zetec motor. Some info here on the problem and fixes at the Turbosport forum ( http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=104681) and on the Caterham forum. The Raceline unit moves the thermostat 15 inches or so away from the port in the block so that the thermostat action lags the temperature changes in the motor. Retroford does one that doesn't shift the thermostat quite that far away.

Dunnell has a rather expensive adapter that solves the clearance problem between the motor and the firewall in RWD installations while keeping the thermostat closer to its original position. http://www.dunnellengines.com/datasheet ... 20Rail.pdf

That's why when building mine (no surprise there), I blatantly copied their design. You might PM Rob Walker (Prezoom) and ask why his runs cool in all conditions. Maybe he'll fess up in this thread. :lol:

I'm not saying that this is your problem but if changing the thermostat doesn't solve it, you might want to check out the links above. :wink:
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:10 am

My +2 Zetec runs fine all day long in the hottest stop start traffic, no problems with overheating. The design of the Raceline water rail isn’t the best, but it’s what Tim has fitted and it would be expensive to change it in time and money probably both.

The thermostat housing fitted to the Raceline rails accepts the standard Ford pre crossflow type thermostats. After a long period of little or no use they have a tendency to get a bit sticky in this situation, hence my advice to Tim based on experience. http://www.burtonpower.com/special-ther ... p610m.html

If I were building my car again I would use the Dunnel water rail ( or fabricate my own ), those of you who have followed my posts regarding ride height, steering lock and exhaust manifolds for the Spyder converted Zetec cars know that I have a little bit of experience regarding the Spyder converted cars and that many of my “upgrades” have been adopted by Spyder.


Edit to add link to thermostat housing
Last edited by Spyder fan on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: TAS » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:19 am

I’ve got a thermostat coming on Monday as a starting point, hopefully that will cure it.. the car has been stood for a while, it’s only done 1,200 miles since the conversion was finished in 2014 so I expect some issues need solving.

Thanks for all your advice so far.

Spyderfan, how have you improved the steering lock, it’s not great.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:25 am

Tim,
The steering lock can be improved by re-drilling the steering arms to move the track rod ends in a little, this results in more steering effort being required, but pulling out onto narrow roads is a lot easier and 5 point turns become 2 or 3 point.
Best to come over to see mine at Pevensey and have a go before doing it, but it is reversible as you simply just reconnect to the original holes.
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