Braided Fuel Pipe

PostPost by: LorraineLH » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:37 pm

Not an Elan but still relevant. Article in the latest Sunbeam Lotus Owner's Club magazine.
Attachments
braided-fuel-pipe.jpg and
LorraineLH
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 20 May 2016

PostPost by: billwill » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:53 pm

Some 15 years ago, a sports-car repair firm was doing some repairs for me and also fitted an electric fuel pump in my Elan S3.

To do this they ran a new fuel pipe through the cabin on the right hand side in the door sill cavity which then emerged in the engine compartment near the air box. They used a braided fuel pipe.

The pipe seeped fuel out; not enough to be measurable as a leak but enough to make an unpleasant fuel smell in the cabin.

Eventually I finally replaced that braided pipe, for all of the portion in the cabin with solid cunifer pipe of a diameter bigger than brake pipes.


I've described this before, see my main topic from this link onwards:
lotus-elan-f19/getting-ogu-roadworthy-again-t26101-90.html#p178305

Image
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5060
Joined: 19 Apr 2008

PostPost by: RichC » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:49 pm

yes i'd never touch the stuff again ! I bought what i thought was best quality to run from pump to webers and within a relatively short time of a few years the rubber interior had deteriorated, shrunk and cracked & leaked at the unions ... all the while the braided steel exterior looked fine and dandy .... I'd rather have a direct visiual cue to the state of the rubber ...
could it be anything to do with fuel additives? I used to add octane boost stuff as wasn't sure my head was converted to unleaded .
User avatar
RichC
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 829
Joined: 28 Apr 2009

PostPost by: LorraineLH » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:09 pm

The ethanol adddd to fuel will affect the rubber eventually but I would have thought it would take longer than a few short years
http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and- ... formation/
LorraineLH
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 17
Joined: 20 May 2016

PostPost by: mbell » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:44 pm

I've specifically fitted SAE J30 R9 grade hose in my engine bay that should withstand ethanol loaded fuels.

I have also run them in fiberglass heat shield sleeve to protect them from fire/damage but this will make it harder to spot any issue with the hose. However should the hose fail the fiberglass sleeve should somewhat contain any leaking fuel, giving me more change to notice/smell the problem before a fuel fire occurs.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2691
Joined: 07 Jun 2013

PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:58 am

I bought braided pump to carburettors fuel line 18 months ago from Paul Matty and I was assured it was suitable for the current ethanol loaded UK fuel. I decided I would still will make this a service item every few years.
Malcolm
1966 Elan S3 Coupe
1994 Caterham 7
englishmaninwales
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 747
Joined: 26 Jul 2013

PostPost by: gav » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:41 am

I scrapped the nylon fuel pipe that the factory used and went for rubber braided pipework and it always smelt of fuel. I then changed to Goodridge fuel hosing and the problem went away.
It is an expensive solution and I ended up using the correct fittings and hardline pipework through the car but all the smells have gone - as has my worrying.

For me the choices would be to use ordinary fuel quality hose (not braided rubberised hose) and copper pipework with lipped ends to hold the pipe behind the jubilee clip through the car as the Bill's photo or a full blown braided solution with the correct fittings (and a recognised make like Goodridge, Earls etc - not the Chinese rubbish which is flooding the market). I was worried about the original concept and when the opportunity arose sacrificed originality for what I considered to be safety.

Gavin
One day I'll actually finish - completely - one day....
User avatar
gav
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 524
Joined: 26 Jan 2004

PostPost by: ecamiel » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:27 pm

Use the correct hose for fuel like Goodridge fuel hosing. You Probably have something specked for oil or brakes.
I have mine in for over 30 years with no issues.

Eric
S 1 Hart
User avatar
ecamiel
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 263
Joined: 02 Oct 2003

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:16 am

Could someone do a precis of what the article says please?

Its impossible for me to read and at 400% zoom the text is still just a blur.

I often see photos of period articles etc posted on here and I can never read them, am I missing a trick?
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: 20 Mar 2012

PostPost by: billwill » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:28 am

Try this:

1. Left-Click the picture of the document so that this website serves up the more detailed copy.
2. Right click the picture and select "View Image"
3. Hold down CTRL and click the PLUS or MINUS key repeatedly to enlarge or reduce the picture.
use the arrow keys to scroll sideways or up & down

4. with luck you should be able to read it.

5. Click your BACK option on screen to return to the forum.




{I suspect you have been missing out step 1 and trying to read the miniature replica of the image}
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5060
Joined: 19 Apr 2008

PostPost by: prezoom » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:21 pm

Past experience with rubber lined stainless braided hose, has shown that, over time, the rubber will deteriorate, making more like a soaker hose/pipe for the garden. This has mostly happened with racing fuel.

I like the idea of re-routing the fuel line to another location, other than the drive shaft tunnel. Especially with regards to the Plus2, and its ability to siphon. I believe that a nylon derived line is completely satisfactory, if routed in a safer location. Other options include a metallic line, or a braided hose with a teflon liner. Anyone have any experience with the latter?

For the past 10 years, I have used a braided line from the fuel pump to the carburetors as sourced from RDent, with no signs of leakage. But that one has only seen ethanol enhanced street fuel, without other additives.
Rob Walker
26-4889
50-0315N
1964 Sabra GT
1964 Elva Mk4T Coupe (awaiting restoration)
1965 Ford Falcon Ranchero, 302,AOD,9",rack and pinion,disc,etc,etc,etc
1954 Nash Healey LeMans Coupe

Owning a Lotus will get you off the couch
prezoom
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: 16 Mar 2009

PostPost by: StressCraxx » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:32 pm

prezoom wrote:Past experience with rubber lined stainless braided hose, has shown that, over time, the rubber will deteriorate, making more like a soaker hose/pipe for the garden. This has mostly happened with racing fuel.

I like the idea of re-routing the fuel line to another location, other than the drive shaft tunnel. Especially with regards to the Plus2, and its ability to siphon. I believe that a nylon derived line is completely satisfactory, if routed in a safer location. Other options include a metallic line, or a braided hose with a teflon liner. Anyone have any experience with the latter?

For the past 10 years, I have used a braided line from the fuel pump to the carburetors as sourced from RDent, with no signs of leakage. But that one has only seen ethanol enhanced street fuel, without other additives.


The RDent braided line is teflon lined. Teflon is inert to all types of fuel. The only concern I have about braided stainless is that if it rubs on anything, it acts like a hacksaw. This is particularly true for the poor sot who has to work with it. All it takes is one little braid wire to find its way into my hands.

The solution I found was to use heat shrink vinyl tube over it to protect both me and the car.
There is no cure for Lotus, only treatment.
User avatar
StressCraxx
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1414
Joined: 26 Sep 2003

PostPost by: el-saturn » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:52 pm

....all of my oil and gas lines are aeroquip and the oil lines an10 (dash 10) always get to me if i need to get close / the nearness: makes my arms look like we have a cat or a tasmanian devil. sandy
el-saturn
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: 27 Jun 2012

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:36 pm

billwill wrote:Try this:

1. Left-Click the picture of the document so that this website serves up the more detailed copy.
2. Right click the picture and select "View Image"
3. Hold down CTRL and click the PLUS or MINUS key repeatedly to enlarge or reduce the picture.
use the arrow keys to scroll sideways or up & down

4. with luck you should be able to read it.

5. Click your BACK option on screen to return to the forum.


Thanks for that, I can do the first step but the right click brings up the option "afficher l'image" (I have a French Windows operating system) but it is in a lighter font and appears to be disabled, if I then do ctrl+ it enlarges the background but not the image.

The French and English language versions I believe have the same menu structure, what line is the "view image" command on and what are the options before and after it please?




{I suspect you have been missing out step 1 and trying to read the miniature replica of the image}
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1370
Joined: 20 Mar 2012

PostPost by: billwill » Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:14 pm

It depends which browser program you use of course.

"View Image" is from Firefox first entry.

Edge does not seem to have that option but it has "Save Picture As" as second option & you could then use PAINT to view it.

Internet Explorer v11 has "save Picture as" as the 7th option.


Which browser program are you using? You could install English Versions of Firefox or Chrome.


"afficher l'image" means Show image so it looks as if that is the correct one in any case.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5060
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: EPA, JasonJ and 24 guests