Window mechanism removal

[Merrill]

A couple of weeks ago the driver?s (left) side window of my Elan S4 dropped down of its own accord and refused to come back up. I?m rather stumped trying to solve the problem. The cable(s) is (are) not broken, but have either come off a pulley or the pulley has broken.

I?ve seen loads of advice in these forums about installing the window, but almost none about removing it. What I have seen calls it one of the worst jobs on an Elan. Oh joy. Both Brian Buckland and Gordon Lund say to follow the manual?s instructions closely when removing the mechanism.

So, the manual says:
?Disconnect the battery? ? done.
?Remove waterproof cover concealing motor? ? there is no such cover on my car.
?Mark position of cables on motor and remove cables? ? this is where the trouble starts. The cables are hidden behind the motor and the metal piece it?s attached to. If I can?t see them, or reach them, how am I supposed to mark them?
?Remove securing bolts and remove motor? ? I have removed the two rearward bolts, but the third one will not give way. There is scarcely enough room to get a wrench on it and no room to turn the wrench. Using a socket, I can?t tell if it?s on and I?m turning the bolt and it?s not coming undone, or if the socket is turning on the bolt and wrecking it. I have small hands, but not small enough to be able to feel what?s happening inside.

This is as far as I?ve got. Any suggestions?

[nmauduit]

One way or the other the motor will need to get out for your to take the frame off the door... the inside of the door can be exposed to water then corrosion: I assume you have generously sprayed lubricant to help the thread getting loose, when that fails careful drilling or cutting may be next step.
In some cases replacement of some parts (welded/captive nuts ...) will be needed to put everything back together.

[Orsom Weels]

As said, the motor has to be removed to proceed further. It sounds like you have hexagon headed bolts ? I have just done this job on both my friends series 3 & my own series 4 & both had philips headed screws holding the motor to the frame & even with those, access to the front screw was tight, I couldn't get dead straight on the screw with the screw driver. It sounds like you may need a universal joint in between your socket & extension, if there's room. On my friends series 3, the retaining circlip had broken on one of the pulleys & it had fallen off, letting the glass fall. On my series 4, we were at a 3 day show last weekend & the cable broke on day one. I happened to have a spare cable in the boot, along with a very basic tool kit, so ended up stripping it all down, replacing the cable, & putting it all back together again in the camping field , so it's not that bad a job, took about an hour from start to finish & I ended up with a large audience just waiting for the glass to shatter when I tightened the cable retaining bolts
By the way, I didn't have to disconnect the motor wiring on either, there was enough wire to let the motor lay on the floor. The worst part was disconnecting & re-connecting the door latch & lock rods.

Regards, Tim

[elanner]

Yes - I've struggled with that third bolt a few times over the years and never managed to find a good way to get it out.

Botch alert: I've always ended up using a regular spanner/wrench placed over the hex head - end-on - and then turn the spanner using a screwdriver across the open jaws at the other end. This invariably fouls up the bolt head slightly, so if necessary I fit a new bolt and am careful to not over tighten it (not that there's much risk of that).

Nick

[billwill]

The nut is welded/brazed to the steel panel but it can rust all around it and the nut come loose or even tear all the steel around it so that it spins.

Very tricky. As others have said they are supposed to be screwdriver heads not hex bolt heads.

You may need to contrive some form of bent jemmy bar and lever it out, breaking the nut/ stripping its thread.

Bottom of door frame with some nuts broken off.

[billwill]

The electrical wires to the window motors generally have bullet connectors about 6 inches from where the wires enter the motor, which is why you cant see the connectors.

Window motor wires.

[billwill]

One of these kind of spanners may enable you to get the bolt undone.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/neilsen-CT1373 ... B005WTCHZA

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_no ... Wrench+Set

But if all else fails you may have to cut away part of the fibreglass of the inner of the door and then 'make good' later.

[NickD]

Another option which may be worth a try and which should give better access to the third screw would be to remove the black motor body from the aluminium gear housing. It is held on by two long screws, the heads of which are visible at the forward end of the motor. Once these have been removed, the body including the armature can just be slid away from the gear housing. Watch out for the brushes catching on the end of the armature spindle - you may need to push these back with a small screwdriver to free it. Reassembling the motor is not too difficult once it is on the bench. Hopefully, the picture makes this clearer.

[Merrill]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've been otherwise occupied for the last couple of days. Nick D wins the prize for the best suggestion. Having taken the motor apart, I've now been able to remove the third bolt and found out why it wouldn't come off. It was something nobody had suggested, because it seemed improbable. It is not the same size as the other two. Not only that, it's metric. While 11mm worked on the other two, this one was 10mm, something I never thought to try. I had tried 3/8. I will go by what some of you have said and replace these with screws, but not Phillips. They look nice, but are no match for our Canadian Robertsons, or Allen keys, or Torx. Now to clear enough bench space for the whole window frame. Thanks again.

[billwill]

Well done.