Lotus Elan

S1 Élan Rebuild - My Story

PostPost by: nomad » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:48 pm

nomad wrote:Glen has managed to fit the type 18 bearings to the 16 housings and, as he noted, it appears they would work but without the dust shield. What would be the problem with running them??? They appear that they would stay in place if there is something that holds the axle...without looking i assume there is.

[I have the correct ones from RD]

Kurt
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Never mind...... I was thinking the bearing already had a seal. Looks like a redo!
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:17 pm

billwill wrote:You managed to find a 5-way brake tube junction?

Where from, please?


Just ordered them from: http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct. ... de=065.651
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65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:38 pm

The problem is the depth of the machining for the inner bearing is less in the Issue 16 casting. Thus the wider later bearing from the Issue 18 casting does not fit fully into its location.

This results in the inability to fit the retaining circlip that retains this bearing and the axle in place. Also the axle is moved inwards from its correct location by a few mm resulting in fouling of the brake disk in its caliper and also potentially the wheel hub on the outside of the alloy casting.

cheers
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:39 pm

Certified Lotus wrote:
billwill wrote:You managed to find a 5-way brake tube junction?

Where from, please?


Just ordered them from: http://www.holden.co.uk/displayproduct. ... de=065.651


Ah, good, I couldn't find one last year when I was looking for one, so I have not yet fitted new brake pipes at the front for fear I would damage the existing one getting the old pipes unscrewed; they were too tight to move easily.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:00 pm

rgh0 wrote:The problem is the depth of the machining for the inner bearing is less in the Issue 16 casting. Thus the wider later bearing from the Issue 18 casting does not fit fully into its location.

This results in the inability to fit the retaining circlip that retains this bearing and the axle in place. Also the axle is moved inwards from its correct location by a few mm resulting in fouling of the brake disk in its caliper and also potentially the wheel hub on the outside of the alloy casting.

cheers
Rohan


All the reason why I am totally dismantling (again) and replacing with the right bearings, spacers, dust caps and circlips.
Glen
65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
07 Exige S - Wicked Road/Track Car
07 Exige S - Fast Road/Track Car
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:58 pm

My parts from TTR arrived just in time for the weekend! New correct bearings for the bearing carrier plus the correct spacers and dust shields.

For those of you that import parts to the U.S. I had an interesting call from the customs clearing house (UPS). They called me to say there was no invoice attached to the box and wanted to know what was in the box. They said the box was labeled antique cars parts. I told them it was for a 50 year old car and yes the parts where bearings and associated parts. They wanted me to supply a copy of the invoice. I emailed TTR the following day, they scanned and sent me the invoice which I supplied to the clearing house. They acknowledged and my package appeared today..........with the original 4 copies of the invoice attached in the plastic clear envelope. Go figure!

image.jpg and


More importantly my engine is done and I get to see it on the dyno on Sunday and bring it home!
Glen
65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
07 Exige S - Wicked Road/Track Car
07 Exige S - Fast Road/Track Car
06 Elise - Track pack
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PostPost by: fatboyoz » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:03 am

Glen,
I have been looking at the genuine Lotus "Service Parts List" in reference to the rear bearings.
It looks to me, and it seems that Brian Buckland's manual also indicates the same thing, that the thinner (original), inner bearing was not fitted with the dust shield.
It may be worthwhile doing some measuring just to make sure that there is room enough to fit the large circlip with bearing and dust shield fitted. The dust shield is fitted before pressing the new bearing on to the shaft. It would be a pain to have it all back together a second time and still not be able to fit the circlip.
Someone else will, I'm sure, chime in with the correct answer.
Cheers,
Colin.

Certified Lotus wrote:My parts from TTR arrived just in time for the weekend! New correct bearings for the bearing carrier plus the correct spacers and dust shields.

For those of you that import parts to the U.S. I had an interesting call from the customs clearing house (UPS). They called me to say there was no invoice attached to the box and wanted to know what was in the box. They said the box was labeled antique cars parts. I told them it was for a 50 year old car and yes the parts where bearings and associated parts. They wanted me to supply a copy of the invoice. I emailed TTR the following day, they scanned and sent me the invoice which I supplied to the clearing house. They acknowledged and my package appeared today..........with the original 4 copies of the invoice attached in the plastic clear envelope. Go figure!

image.jpg


More importantly my engine is done and I get to see it on the dyno on Sunday and bring it home!
'68 S4 DHC
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:54 pm

Colin, thanks for the heads up on the dust shield. I just looked at the Lotus service manual and the exploded view of the rear bearing carrier clearly shows the dust shield next to the inner bearing. I'll cross reference with Bucklands book and use a micrometer to confirm. Another small challenge in the rebuild :?
Glen
65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
07 Exige S - Wicked Road/Track Car
07 Exige S - Fast Road/Track Car
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PostPost by: nomad » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:32 pm

I'm afraid I fitted just plain ol sealed bearings on the inside. If there was room for a dust shield it wouldn't have been much. The bearings that came out had no dust shield either, sooooo, are they really necessary? Is there an increase in service life by having the dust shield??

Kurt
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PostPost by: john1180 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:10 pm

I hit a patch of gravel in my S3 once and the non dust shielded inner bearing gave up the ghost a few miles later. The sealed type bearings are vulnerable
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PostPost by: bitsobrits » Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:38 am

Kurt,

My Elan is in year 18 of "plain old sealed" bearings. As long as the seal remains intact, I think you'll be fine.
Steve

Elan S1 1963-Bourne Bodied
Elan S3 1966 FHC
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PostPost by: nomad » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:18 am

bitsobrits wrote:Kurt,

My Elan is in year 18 of "plain old sealed" bearings. As long as the seal remains intact, I think you'll be fine.


Thanks Steve...looking at other source's I'm apparently not alone and not going to the trouble of changing them now!
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:07 am

My friend Drew started the disassembly of the bearing carrier and reassembly with the right size bearings. Couple of notes, on the type 16 bearing carrier you need the "smaller" bearings NSK Bearings (made in Poland) 6206DDU/6206DDUCM/D EEMS5. The dust shields do NOT fit when used with the spacers. Try as you may, there is not enough room. We figure that the "new" style bearings are sealed and the old style bearings where open and needed a dust shield? Who knows, but with the install of new bearings just completed it is what I'm going with.

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With the bearing carriers finished (for the second time) the installation of them on the rear suspension arms was next and then the install of the Koni shocks, small diameter springs, rubber damper and spring cap. I carefully poured enough engine oil in the shock tubes until they leaked out the top with the shocks placed inside the tubes and screwed in the retaining top and assembled everything. It all went together very easily and I got ready for next step.

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Everything was fitting just as expected so I thought the install of the TTR 3 bolt flange drive shaft would be a piece of cake. Well, the drive shaft bolted just fine to the differential half shafts.......but I could not get the rear rotors to fit the bearing carrier half shafts and the drive shaft. The rotor holes would not align. I tried everything I could except drilling the holes out on the rotors. Darn! It's Sunday night so I have to wait to call TTR until the next day. Never the less, bolted the wheel hubs on, torqued them as per instructions and mounted the wheels!

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As usual, I'm waiting for parts so a couple more days of delay until the entire drive train and suspension is together. But the chassis is finally back on its own wheels!

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Spoke with my engine builder on Sunday. They did the initial run on the dyno and at 6500 rpm and 147HP it flattened out. They couldn't figure out why a flat spot so they are talking to the cam builder and checking the timing chain gear adjustment. I'm being patient as this part of completing the engine is critical to the final tune.
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Last edited by Certified Lotus on Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
Glen
65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
07 Exige S - Wicked Road/Track Car
07 Exige S - Fast Road/Track Car
06 Elise - Track pack
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Tue Jun 09, 2015 1:20 am

Spoke with TTR about the old rear rotors not fitting with the new drive train parts. They told me they have "heard this before" so I ordered new rear rotors (and a few more parts on my list). Couple more days until they arrive and then I should be finished with the final drive assembly.

I wonder what part I need next and haven't thought of.........
Glen
65 Elan S2 - 26/4055
72 Europa - 74/2358R
69 Elan S4 - 45/7941
64 Elan S1 - 26/0379
12 Colin 30 - Lotus Racing Kart
07 Exige S - Wicked Road/Track Car
07 Exige S - Fast Road/Track Car
06 Elise - Track pack
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PostPost by: john1180 » Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:32 am

Early cars had a slightly different bolt circle( I think it was a bit larger) than all the rest. Since you replaced all the parts except the rotors, that's why you had the problem.
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