Lotus Elan

New Level for Value?

PostPost by: khamai » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:42 pm

Sold today a 1965 Elan S2 with factory hard top.

1965 LOTUS ELAN S2 WITH FACTORY HARD TOP
Chassis no. 26/4530
Engine no. LP3132

As denoted on this car's chassis plate, 26/4530 was an original North American Market/U.S. delivered car. It migrated to Canada in 1980, by which time it still wore its original brown paint scheme albeit in need of some attention as it entered its 3rd decade of existence. At this juncture, a comprehensive restoration was begun, and as the car was disassembled its owner worked with the most incredible attention to detail and design, taking copies notes and design drawings, and researching each aspect while maintaining receipts for many parts acquired. As time marched on it would actually be some 20 years before the beautifully restored rolling chassis and superbly painted body in Lotus yellow were re-united. But ultimately, owing to its owner's death, the car was not completed. 3 years ago the Elan and all the spares and parts passed into the hands of a close friend and near neighbor Tom Munro, a master engineer and top restoration specialist based in Victoria, Vancouver Island, who finished the project in 2015.

SOLD TODAY for $60,500 by Bonhams at the Amelia Island auction.

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23133/lot/168/

Reactions????

Cheers,
Kiyoshi
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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:51 pm

Might be a fairly high US value but nowhere near a record
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:45 am

Nice car but £43k ish isn't exactly outrageous for an Elan especially an early one.

http://www.paulmattysportscars.co.uk/sh ... px?id=3893
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PostPost by: Certified Lotus » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:00 am

Drew was there and sent me photos of the car. I need to increase my insurance policy on my S1.
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PostPost by: Tahoe » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:19 am

$60500 plus buyers premium so close to $67000 all in. I think some of us feel this about where they should be. I don't think they've ever been under appreciated for there performance and looks, but have been for their value compared to some of the other British sports cars. We'll see if this one auction changes anything in the near future.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:30 am

It says "Sold for US$ 60,500 (£42,756) inc premium" so does that mean Including Premium?

Believe it or not this "* Offered with Lotus Classic Certificate of Provenance" means allot to a collector that are used to classiche certification etc. I would be interested to see if it has its original chassis under it too (which it sounds like it does as they have listed its Chassis number) this may well be a proper numbers matching car with the paper work to back it up which is rare nowadays.

I keep hearing how its a good thing to swap chassis but if you can keep the original chassis under it and have the paper work to prove its original then it opens the car up to a completely different market (Plus you can sell the car at a different level of auction house with a different level of Buyer)
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PostPost by: LabroDF » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:32 pm

I am a fairly new owner and as I sort out my S2.. what are the feelings on not having correct period instruments, seat covers and silencer? (few small items that stood out)... specially when advertised as "very fine attention to detail in both the fit and finish".
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PostPost by: trw99 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:43 pm

The thing about an auction is that you only need to have two bidders who really want the car to push the price upwards. So a single auction result can not be taken as an indication that Elan values need recalculating.

And I do agree with Chris regarding original chassis. There are precious few Elans running around on their original units, especially in Europe.

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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:45 pm

From experience (although not with Lotus cars) the History / Paperwork /Matching Numbers is the thing that makes it worth the money (it's some thing you can't buy) the smaller Clocks, seats etc is some thing that can be fixed if an Owner wants the car to be Correct but often Collectors or Investors are not Enthusiasts so things like that often slip under the radar just as long as they look right.

I really do thing the Auction itself has allot to do with the price some thing like this gets, if its Bonhams or RM and the Auction is Full of Blue Chip cars it brings out the big spenders. The problem is the big auction houses like to see Provenance and History (they can be very picky what they sell) so it can be quite hard to get a two or three matching numbers car sold by them if there catalog is full.
Last edited by Grizzly on Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:55 pm

Totally agree. And maybe it could have brought a few more $$ if it had a proper rear muffler, nose badge, and shift knob and some other nitpicky things. A very, very nice car otherwise.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:06 pm

trw99 wrote:The thing about an auction is that you only need to have two bidders who really want the car to push the price upwards. So a single auction result can not be taken as an indication that Elan values need recalculating.

Yes its always the same at an Auction but with that said a car is only worth what some one is prepared to pay for it. The thing that's interesting here is for example if i was to value a car for a customer the people i would use take their prices from a selection of Auction Sales over the past 6-12 months, so the knock on effect is that a Good S2 book value will have gone up because of this car.

Frankly knowing how few have this sort of history and it was sold by Bonhams i think it went on the cheap side, BUT!! that may well be because the book value was only £30k ish to start with.
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:42 pm

Grizzly wrote:It says "Sold for US$ 60,500 (£42,756) inc premium" so does that mean Including Premium?

Believe it or not this "* Offered with Lotus Classic Certificate of Provenance" means allot to a collector that are used to classiche certification etc. I would be interested to see if it has its original chassis under it too (which it sounds like it does as they have listed its Chassis number) this may well be a proper numbers matching car with the paper work to back it up which is rare nowadays.

I keep hearing how its a good thing to swap chassis but if you can keep the original chassis under it and have the paper work to prove its original then it opens the car up to a completely different market (Plus you can sell the car at a different level of auction house with a different level of Buyer)


You could also keep it in a vault and never drive it in case that might diminish its value.

Or sell it and buy gold bars with the money...
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:50 pm

Do what every you want with your car, by definition its Yours but some people will pay for the rarity of being one of the few that hasn't been structurally altered, it doesn't mean its not been driven? this car could have done 100k for all you know? but its owner has looked after it and not neglected the car which is why its worth more.

Ironically i have the opposite opinion to you Bill, it may well be because i work with other marques that i get paid allot of money to make as close to the car that left the factory as possible it changes your philosophy, these things are only original once and the real enthusiasts / Collectors know how rare an Untouched car is so the closer you can get with Paper work to back it up the more you can ask for it (Basically the cars that have been loved all there life's are worth more than the neglected or poorly repaired cars, just because an Elan has a bad Rust trap in the chassis that got 90% replaced just makes an "As left the factory" car that much more rare) just think all that's before you add the big hole in the Lotus records that reduces the amount of possible cars that can be traced back to origin even more. So when you think about it this car is rare.

As i have said before when you dip into the Numbers matching Blue chip market the prices go up substantially as the people bidding get more affluent, just look at the other cars in the same Auction (the elan is one of the cheapest cars there)
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PostPost by: john1180 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:27 pm

"Collectors know how rare an Untouched car is so the closer you can get with Paper work to back it up the more you can ask for it (Basically the cars that have been loved all there life's are worth more than the neglected or poorly repaired cars, just because an Elan has a bad Rust trap in the chassis that got 90% replaced just makes an "As left the factory" car that much more rare) just think all that's before you add the big hole in the Lotus records that reduces the amount of possible cars that can be traced back to origin even more. So when you think about it this car is rare."

This car is far from untouched or original! Wrong wheel arches, horrible stance, and lots of other small details. I think it was redone to a high standard, but no where near original. Early cars continue to bring good prices, but this one surprises me. Great sale for the seller!
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:38 pm

Yes this car is far from Original but would a layman, dealer who doesn't know Lotus cars or non Lotus Enthusiast know that? Thing is the bit that is rare and you can't buy is there with this car. Thanks to some great advice in a buyers guide many years ago an Original chassis is now (especially one that can be paper trailed back to the factory) is almost unheard of.

I seem to not be getting this across that the type of people that would have bought this car will have bought it not because it has the correct Gear knob or Clocks but because of the History and the Auction it was being sold at.

Has anyone flicked through the other cars sold at Amelia Island in that Action. There is some serious stuff sold. Have you noticed they put disclaimers on when the Engine Number etc doesn't match. http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23133/lot/120/
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