Seat Belts for Elan S1

[Mr.Gale]

I'm rebuilding my S1 and am almost ready to put it on the road. One problem I'm having is finding a three of four point seat belt setup that will mount so that when I unzip the tonneau cover, I can stuff it behind the seat(s). Originally the car only had lap belts so it wasn't a problem. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Mr.Gale

[Famous Frank]

Mr. Gale,

Great question! I too am rebuilding a S2. As we both know S1's and S2's never had anything more than a Lap Belt from the factory. It's just a personal thing to me but I feel very vulnerable without a shoulder belt. In my last S2 I installed a four point belt assembly with the shoulder belts attached to the Rear Strut Frame Bolt area. This was a very good inexpensive modification. I've included a picture of that installation. For me, it had two drawbacks. One, whenever a passenger sat in the car, it would become a 5 minute ordeal to properly adjust the Lap and Shoulder Belts.If I went from a skinny girlfriend to a rubinesque girlfriend, .........well, you get the idea! Two, whenever i would enter a competition event such as an Autocross I would tighten my belt more than when I was driving through the neighborhood. When I tightened the belt, the Lap Belt potion would get pulled up by the Shoulder Harness and the belt would be resting against my diaphragm versus over my hips. This would bother my deep breathing capabilities. It was okay but not comfortable. PLEASE NOTE: I AM NOT AN ENGINEER AND PLEASE READ THIS DISCLAIMER. I HAVE NO EDUCATED KNOWLEDGE OF SEAT BELT INSTALLATION OF DESIGN.

That said, I'll now describe what I'm doing now. I friend of mine is an excellent race car fabricator. He has forgotten more than I'll ever know. I decided to use a three point harness with self tensioning shoulder harness portion. But the same bolt at the Rear Strut Frame is too centered. I needed the seat belt to rise from the floor to my shoulder and to be mounted as high as possible but still fit under my Tonnaeu Cover. if look at the pictures below, my solution was to reinforce the area of the steel rod lattice area to mount the belt retractor and to fabricate mounts from the Rear Strut area to the top of the steel lattice area. M y car isn't finished yet either but it's close. I'm really looking forward to using this system. The three point belt system was much less expensive than the competition blets but the labor to make the mounts was pricey. About $400. It's a full day job of cutting metal, making holes, welding nuts to the back side, cutting and welding tubes, etc. But I'm still happy with it at this time.

As we are only allowed two pics per note, I'll add some extra notes.

Frank

[Famous Frank]

Mr Gale,

A couple more mics.

Frank

[Famous Frank]

Mr. Gale,

Finally a couple more pics.

Frank

[Famous Frank]

Also, sorry for all the typos. I really shouldn't do this while I'm watching TV.

Frank

[Mr.Gale]

Frank, thanks for taking the time to describe and illustrate your solution. You have given me several good ideas on how I might approach the problem. I like what you have done except I would like the shoulder strap on the right vs. the left. I realize that is backwards but it would solve my problem with the tonneau cover.
Thanks again,
Mr.Gale

[elanfan1]

Frank I am no engineer but would like to invite opinion from those that are.

I suspect the forces from an impact could see that arrangement challenged. If you look at how standard belts are fitted to later editions. If your solution is purely aimed at getting through a local safety inspection and maybe you choose not to use the belts!? Then it's up to you.

Seriously I've been a desk jockey and have little engineering experience so don't take anything I say seriously in this respect or anyway come to think of it.

Steve

[elanfan1]

Frank I am no engineer but would like to invite opinion from those that are.

I suspect the forces from an impact could see that arrangement challenged. If you look at how standard belts are fitted to later editions. If your solution is purely aimed at getting through a local safety inspection and maybe you choose not to use the belts!? Then it's up to you.

Seriously I've been a desk jockey and have little engineering experience so don't take anything I say seriously in this respect or anyway come to think of it.

Steve

[jk952]

Another idea just for consideration is below, admittedly rather less sophisticated than Franks.
A proper seat belt nut is welded onto a steel plate and fiberglassed in from the inside of the feder well.
The fiberglass is very thick on this part of the car as it takes the jacking point load, so stronger than one would normally think.

Jack

Someone pointed out that a low shoulder point may cause some spinal compression, however the real actual function would be to ensure correct positioning to be impaled by the non-collapsing steering column a crash..

[Tahoe]

My solution is similar to Jack's (location wise) except mine is tied back to the frame. I have an early Spyder frame with outriggers so I've attached a grade 8 bolt approx. 4 inches long, directly to the outrigger through a sch40 pipe, used as a spacer. The spacer will be glassed to the body. The spacer allows the seat belt attachment to rotate a little but is extremely ridged. I would post pictures but I've removed those bolts so I can install the alligator hides, new door panels, dash, and new rear suspension. Trying my best to have all that done by the middle of April.

[Quart Meg Miles]

Frank,
Have you solved the lap belt problem? Unless you can fit the release catch tongue in a place where it can be reached by the user (and not on the end of another piece of web which gets pulled up by the shoulder webbing) it will always happen as the standard mounting points are obstructed by the tight fitting seat.

Perhaps the answer is to have two separate belts for the lap and diagonal elements, the unadjustable parts going individually to the same chassis bolt. The lap one could have a simple manual adjustment for passenger differences like in an aircraft.

Mr Gale,
I have my retraction unit mounted on the chassis attachment bolt directly behind the seat, on a simple, heavy angle bracket, and with it slightly angled towards the door it doesn't rub on my neck much though I'm about 5'10" (1m78) and slim build. The unit is designed to work horizontally and is well below the tonneau cover. I don't have a photo but could take one if you like.