What's wrong with the term 'Baby Elan' ?

[stevebroad]

I have been calling my Elan a baby for the last 30-35 years as it differentiates it from the Plus 2 and this has worked very well.

However, I have just noticed that a member has the tag line:

Founding member of the society to eradicate the use of the term B*by Elan by those who really ought to know better

Are there many members of this society and, if so, could you please explain the reasoning behind the dislike and what I ought to know better?

The Plus 2 is bigger than the original Elan so is its big brother and therefore the Elan is the Plus 2's baby brother.

I am not upset and this isn't a rant, just interested in whether I am in the minority in being happy calling my car a baby Elan?

[Tonyw]

Steve,

I think the notion is that the Elan came first and the +2 and FHC's came later so they are the "Baby" Elans whereas the Elan is the big brother albeit a smaller car. The baby cannot be older than the rest of the family so the Elan cannot be the baby............I do wish that Monty Python could take over right now.....

Tonyw

[nebogipfel]

free-parking-f19/baby-elan-not-here-please-t24806.html

[LotusElan+217]

I bought my first Lotus in 1977, a 1969 Elan +2, since the +2 came out in 1967 everyone, and I mean everyone from the punters in the street to the management of Lotus, referred to the Elan as the Baby Elan to differentiate from the larger brother.

I have been a Club Lotus member since that date and throughout those 35 years of attending meetings and track days I had never heard one voice of discontent at the term Baby Elan, it was just accepted within the Lotus community, I also have countless publications, road tests, and interviews with Lotus personnel from that era and the term Baby Elan is widely used. In several conversations over the years with the late Graham Arnold, Lotus Sales Director and Club Lotus Chairman, he definitely used the term Baby Elan and +2 rather than Elan +2 (another contentious point sadly).

I have always used the term Baby Elan and always will and make no apologies for doing so, however, I do refrain from using the term in any posts in this forum as I understand how sensitive some people can be, that is their prerogative and I wouldn't wish to dissuade them from that stance, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I love all Lotuses, yes even Europas, the Elan is a beautiful car and the term Baby Elan is not derogative in any way, quite the opposite in fact, it is a term of endearment, always has been and always will be.

I don't know the member who takes exception to this term, and I am of course aware that he is not the only one, I may be doing him a disservice here but I would hazard a guess that he is relatively young, perhaps under 30, and has been an Elan owner for only a few years, probably under ten, he would not have the experience and heritage of the mark.

If he is an old fart like me then he shouldn't be insulted by the above assumption, I would like to be described as young rather than my true persona, Victor Meldrew.

[Elanman99]

[quote="stevebroad"]I have been calling my Elan a baby for the last 30-35 years as it differentiates it from the Plus 2 and this has worked very well.

However, I have just noticed that a member has the tag line:

[i]Founding member of the society to eradicate the use of the term B*by Elan by those who really ought to know better [/i]

Are there many members of this society and, if so, could you please explain the reasoning behind the dislike and what I ought to know better?

The Plus 2 is bigger than the original Elan so is its big brother and therefore the Elan is the Plus 2's baby brother.

I am not upset and this isn't a rant, just interested in whether I am in the minority in being happy calling my car a baby Elan?[/quote]

Steve

Anyone is entitled to call their car whatever they like so if 'baby' works for you stick with it.

However as regards differentiating its just not necessary. In simple terms there is an 'Elan' and there is an 'Elan plus 2' (or plus 2)

Ian

[elj221c]

I bought my first Lotus in 1977, a 1969 Elan +2, since the +2 came out in 1967 everyone, and I mean everyone from the punters in the street to the management of Lotus, referred to the Elan as the Baby Elan to differentiate from the larger brother.

Not everyone, and I mean, not everyone! I bought mine in '75. It was never a b***! I worked on 26Rs then too. They were never b***s either, they were called lightweights then, mostly.

I don't know the member who takes exception to this term, and I am of course aware that he is not the only one, I may be doing him a disservice here but I would hazard a guess that he is relatively young, perhaps under 30, and has been an Elan owner for only a few years, probably under ten, he would not have the experience and heritage of the mark.

One here! No disservice but I am over twice your quoted age and have 37 years ownership.

If he is an old fart like me then he shouldn't be insulted by the above assumption, I would like to be described as young rather than my true persona, Victor Meldrew.

Not insulted. It's just not necessary to add a word when Elan will do.

[Elanman99]

[quote="LotusElan+217"]I bought my first Lotus in 1977, a 1969 Elan +2, since the +2 came out in 1967 everyone, and I mean everyone from the punters in the street to the management of Lotus, referred to the Elan as the Baby Elan to differentiate from the larger brother.

I have been a Club Lotus member since that date and throughout those 35 years of attending meetings and track days I had never heard one voice of discontent at the term Baby Elan, it was just accepted within the Lotus community, I also have countless publications, road tests, and interviews with Lotus personnel from that era and the term Baby Elan is widely used. In several conversations over the years with the late Graham Arnold, Lotus Sales Director and Club Lotus Chairman, he definitely used the term Baby Elan and +2 rather than Elan +2 (another contentious point sadly).

I have always used the term Baby Elan and always will and make no apologies for doing so, however, I do refrain from using the term in any posts in this forum as I understand how sensitive some people can be, that is their prerogative and I wouldn't wish to dissuade them from that stance, we are all entitled to our opinions.

I love all Lotuses, yes even Europas, the Elan is a beautiful car and the term Baby Elan is not derogative in any way, quite the opposite in fact, it is a term of endearment, always has been and always will be.

I don't know the member who takes exception to this term, and I am of course aware that he is not the only one, I may be doing him a disservice here but I would hazard a guess that he is relatively young, perhaps under 30, and has been an Elan owner for only a few years, probably under ten, he would not have the experience and heritage of the mark.

If he is an old fart like me then he shouldn't be insulted by the above assumption, I would like to be described as young rather than my true persona, Victor Meldrew.[/quote]


I wonder if the use of the term 'Baby' is a regional thing?

As a long time Lotus owner I never ever heard 'baby' used until I saw it on this forum (a few years ago now) In all probability I saw it the very first time it appeared here as it jarred with me then and still does. In all my Lotus experiences (over 50 years) I never, ever, came across anyone using it, I never saw it used in adverts, in magazine articles or anywhere else.

I woinder if in 1969 you had bought an Elan and not a Plus2 , whether you would have referred to it as a baby?

Ian

[stevebroad]

Ok, so no real feeings either way, then
Quote:

I think the notion is that the Elan came first and the +2 and FHC's came later so they are the "Baby" Elans whereas the Elan is the big brother albeit a smaller car. The baby cannot be older than the rest of the family so the Elan cannot be the baby

Took me a while to get my head around this Baby is used to differentiate size rather than age.

Quote:

I have always used the term Baby Elan and always will and make no apologies for doing so, however, I do refrain from using the term in any posts in this forum as I understand how sensitive some people can be, that is their prerogative and I wouldn't wish to dissuade them from that stance, we are all entitled to our opinions.

It certainly is their preogative to not like the term, but it is also my preogative to use it if I want. If we refrained from saying what we thought in fear of upsetting someone's sensibilities then these forums would be sparsely populated Baby or not, it is only an opinion which we are all entitled to.

In the end, this is small beer compared to the Modify or not debate

[Jason1]

I call my Wedgewood blue +2 "powder puff blue". I stopped worrying what other people thought of me a long time ago.
It also does not bother me when people say the +2 is not a 'proper Elan'; there are more important things in life to worry about.

Group hug.

[LotusElan+217]

Ian, definitely not a regional thing, if Graham Arnold used the term then I think it was widely accepted, I could also show you numerous publications including Graham's editorials in Club Lotus where the term is used.

However, I do bow to your superior experience, 50 years against my 35 and it is very strange that you have not come across the term before, I can't answer for your experiences just my own. If I had bought an Elan first would have made no difference to that, as I said it was used by everyone I came into contact with and is a term of endearment.

[trw99]

Without looking through my Lotus library I have no proof of this, but I suspect the term 'baby' was probably first coined by a motoring journalist.

I have just had a quick shufty at the Michael Bowler article on Elans and +2s from Thoroughbred & Classic Cars of September 1976, which is, as far as I am aware, the first retrospective article on our Elans by any classic magazine. Nowhere in that article can I find the term baby. Furthermore Bowler was a staff writer on Motor during the 60's, so I guess that if the term was in general use at that time, he might have used it in his article.

It would therefore appear that the term 'baby' did not enjoy greater usage until some considerable time after production of the +2 ended. Either way, for me it is quite clear, there are Elans and there are +2s and I do not feel baby an appropriate term, even if it is used endearingly, lovey!

Tim

[Mazzini]

Without looking through my Lotus library I have no proof of this, but I suspect the term 'baby' was probably first coined by a motoring journalist.

I have just had a quick shufty at the Michael Bowler article on Elans and +2s from Thoroughbred & Classic Cars of September 1976, which is, as far as I am aware, the first retrospective article on our Elans by any classic magazine. Nowhere in that article can I find the term baby. Furthermore Bowler was a staff writer on Motor during the 60's, so I guess that if the term was in general use at that time, he might have used it in his article.

It would therefore appear that the term 'baby' did not enjoy greater usage until some considerable time after production of the +2 ended. Either way, for me it is quite clear, there are Elans and there are +2s and I do not feel baby an appropriate term, even if it is used endearingly, lovey!

Tim

Amen!

[LotusElan+217]

Without looking through my Lotus library I have no proof of this, but I suspect the term 'baby' was probably first coined by a motoring journalist.

I have just had a quick shufty at the Michael Bowler article on Elans and +2s from Thoroughbred & Classic Cars of September 1976, which is, as far as I am aware, the first retrospective article on our Elans by any classic magazine. Nowhere in that article can I find the term baby. Furthermore Bowler was a staff writer on Motor during the 60's, so I guess that if the term was in general use at that time, he might have used it in his article.

It would therefore appear that the term 'baby' did not enjoy greater usage until some considerable time after production of the +2 ended. Either way, for me it is quite clear, there are Elans and there are +2s and I do not feel baby an appropriate term, even if it is used endearingly, lovey!

Tim

I think it is a shame that people think this way, your "lovey" quote speaks a thousand words.

To say it is an innapropriate term is your opinion and certainly not mine and I speak for no-one else apart from myself, but I respect all opinions and will refrain from using the term Baby Elan in any other postings apart from this one.

I also intend to refer to my car as an Elan +2 whenever I choose, it is a 1972 model, the V5 states Elan +2S 130 and the badge on the side says ELAN +2, what was good enough for Chapman is good enough for me.

The argument that the Elan cannot be the baby as it was conceived before the Elan +2 doesn't ring true to me, a buyer going into the Lotus showroom (if they had one) circa 1970 would be shown two Elans the two seater DHC or FHC and the 2+2 seater Coupe, I think it entirely reasonable to conclude that one would be referred to as the Baby Elan.

Why anyone gets upset at that is beyond me, I don't get upset at anyone insisting I don't have an Elan just a +2, I take it with a pinch of salt as I know they don't know what they are talking about.

[elansprint71]

My involvement with Lotus goes back to maybe 1967, although I didn't own an Elan until the 70s. I was not aware of the term "baby" until I saw it on this forum, it certainly was not around in NW Lotus circles, to the best of my knowledge.
I'm surprised that Graham Arnold is being held up as some sort of paragon; given his history.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

[LotusElan+217]

My involvement with Lotus goes back to maybe 1967, although I didn't own an Elan until the 70s. I was not aware of the term "baby" until I saw it on this forum, it certainly was not around in NW Lotus circles, to the best of my knowledge.
I'm surprised that Graham Arnold is being held up as some sort of paragon; given his history.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

Not my intention to hold up Graham Arnold as a paragon of anything, virtue, integrity, honesty or duplicity, merely recall many conversations with him particularly at Castle Combe, still if you know better than the Lotus Sales Director then who I am to question, I think fish is overrated.