Electric windows

PostPost by: ricarbo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:12 pm

I am having problems with the electric windows on my Sprint and have a couple of questions.

I just wondered if anybody knows how much current they should draw when they are working correctly?

My other question relates to the window switches and the wiring behind the dash. I might have to check the voltage drops at the many junctions there are here. Is it possible to get access to these by removing the dash fixing bolts and pulling the dash towards the rear of the car, or is more work required, e.g. steering column/wheel removal? Would removing the radio help gain access?

Many thanks

Richard
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:27 pm

Richard, Due to the many places that there could be friction i think it is a bit of a tall order to give a representative running current (down has less load due to glass weight and gravity help).
Wrong felt in glass channels, too tight or to slack. Tension of wires. Lubrication of winch pulley and also wire pullies. Distorion of window frame causing side loading.
I have been through some spare motors recently and know that on the bench freshly lubricated that they settle at about 0.85 amperes running no load.
As regards getting at the switches for any meaningful access and testing you need to drop the steering. Will drive you nuts otherwise. If you have to remove the wedge switches you need to get at those tiny philips type screws. Have your motors ever had a freshen up?
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Last edited by miked on Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: pharriso » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:39 pm

On an S4 or Sprint the window switches are directly below the radio, so removing the radio might give you enough access.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:59 am

I had a problem with slow/ stop windows.

I fitted up & down relays on the inside bulkhead each side on my Plus 2. Also sprayed silicon lube in the felt channels.

The windows now fly up and down.

There are countersprings in the Plus 2 window gears so the load is fairly equal up or down. :)
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PostPost by: ricarbo » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:32 am

Many thanks, folks. I've been able to measure the voltage across the motor & switch, because the wiring diagram shows the courtesy light on the dash is connected to the same point. How handy is that? Unfortunately, it's less than 8 volts, while drawing about 6 or 7 amps through stalled motors. If you scale the voltage up to 14.4 volts, I'll be getting 11 or 12 amps, which seems a lot.
I think my best resolution will be to run a new supply from the starter solenoid, to relays controlled by the window swiches. I think that will be easier than struggling behind the dash, plus it will demand less of the 45 year old switches.
As for freshening up the motors, I could have a go at that. I had a model train which was equipped with a high frequency cleaning module. After a few minutes running the train round in circles, it was much improved. Although it's a 12 volt unit, I don't suppose it could handle 12 amps.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:02 am

On my 1972 Sprint the windows go DOWN with the Ignition in OFF position.
To make the Windows go UP the Ignition needs to be in the ON position.
I hope this info helps
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PostPost by: JonB » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:21 am

ricarbo wrote:I think my best resolution will be to run a new supply from the starter solenoid, to relays controlled by the window switches. I think that will be easier than struggling behind the dash, plus it will demand less of the 45 year old switches.


Don't forget a fuse. 30A I think.

[edit] Found this schematic on the RX7 owner's club forum:

https://www.rx7club.com/attachments/2nd ... wiring.gif
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PostPost by: billwill » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:30 am

alan.barker wrote:On my 1972 Sprint the windows go DOWN with the Ignition in OFF position.
To make the Windows go UP the Ignition needs to be in the ON position.
I hope this info helps
Alan


That's the Modern Health & Safety requirement to stop kids getting fingers trapped in the doors windows.
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PostPost by: ericbushby » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:46 am

HI Richard,
My windows are not brilliant, but do work.
The stiff one takes between 4 and 5 amps up, and 3 amps down. The 5 amp reading is when it stalls.
The better one takes 3 amps up and 1.5 amps down and is reasonably smooth in operation.
Hope this helps.
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PostPost by: elanner » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:13 pm

Richard,

Please let us know how well things work after fitting relays. Is the voltage drop in the switches themselves? You could try a burst of cleaner (WD40?) into them, either from the front or via the radio aperture. This fixed my interior light switch nicely.

Getting to the back of the dashboard doesn't just require removing the steering column. I've found that the gear lever needs to be removed so that the dash can be pulled back. You can't lean it far because the back of the glovebox fouls the crash pad.

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PostPost by: Foxie » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:35 pm

elanner wrote:<Snip>
Getting to the back of the dashboard doesn't just require removing the steering column. I've found that the gear lever needs to be removed so that the dash can be pulled back. You can't lean it far because the back of the glovebox fouls the crash pad.

Nick

That's correct.

Another advantage of my 'drop down' glovebox I hadn't realised ! :)
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PostPost by: miked » Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:44 pm

What about the choke cable and the heater cable and maybe some other stuff.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:19 pm

miked wrote:What about the choke cable and the heater cable and maybe some other stuff.


Unclamp the choke inner cable and outer sheath, and they will pull back with the dash. The heater cables are in a big loop and and there is enough slack so they can normally be left be. :)
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PostPost by: ricarbo » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:03 pm

Thanks to everybody for all the help. It seems getting to the back of the dashboard is a bit major. I think putting in relays will be a lot easier. I?m measuring less than 8 volts across the switch and stalled motor, so I'm losing nearly 5 volts. As yet, I haven?t read the voltage across just the motor, so don?t know how much is lost at the switch, Nick. I drop almost 2 volts on the supply side (measured from the positive battery terminal to the window switch) and nearly 3 volts on the earth side (measured from the window motor to the negative battery terminal), so I clearly have work to do. I?ll start by cleaning the earth bobbin in the boot/ trunk. I wouldn?t be surprised if that?s where the 3 volts are lost. The 2 volts on the supply side is lost mostly somewhere behind the dash before the window switch, although it could be the Lucar connection at the switch. That?s where the relays should be a help. I have a copy of the modified wiring diagram drawn up by Peter Wrisley, dated August 28th 2003, which shows how to wire up 2 changeover relays for each window. It appears to be equivalent to that RX7 circuit, Jon. It shows 28/030, 17.5 amp cable being used via an unspecified fuse. So that will be my guide.

Regards
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PostPost by: collins_dan » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:13 pm

You would be surprised how much lubricating the nylon wheels of the pulley system makes. I know its a pain to disconnect the rods to the locking mechanism, but other than that, removing the whole window frame is very easy. Much easier than accessing the switches. Clean everything up, including rust that is probably at the bottom of the frame, replace window wiskers...and at least then you know you are working from a best case scenario. Just a thought. Dan
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