Lotus Elan

Gearbox swop?

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:53 pm

OK Brian. I will have another check tomorrow...

AB
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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:04 am

alexblack13 wrote:OK Brian. I will have another check tomorrow...

AB

I'm still waiting, Alex. But in the meantime.........................

I've spoken to Graham Boulton to arrange taking my 5 speed box to him next week. I told him that changing to and from 2nd & 3rd was a problem that needed double-de-clutching - he said "it sounds like you're using synthetic oil, that gearbox won't work properly with synthetic oil". I didn't tell him that I'm using Redline MTL that I found made a big improvement in the 4 speed, and expected the same in the 5 speed.
However, as it's out, I'm still taking it to him to give it the 'once-over'.

I now expect some comments on this...........
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:43 am

Hi Brian.. All'



The answer to this will be to shorten the switch by about 4 - 5 mm.. ?? Err NO.... Don't try this at home! One can only remove about 1 mm safely before Ruining the switch..good job I tested this on an old u/s one I had. Goosed it completely... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Had to do a wee mod to the Gearbox mounting and screw thew switch as far in as it would go and back it out 1 turn. The contacts just clear the mounting by about 4 mm ... :shock:

Thought I would let you all know this was not one of my better ideas.

Got a good solution to the gearbox shift issue.. Details and some pic's later..

AB....




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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:56 pm

Sorry Guys.. Managed to remove the post above the last one by mistake.. :?

I had told Brian I had about 30 mm of difference sump bottom to bottom of G/box. And I had an issue with clearance. Reversing lamp switch to gearbox mount, and I was going to try shortening the switch a little to try and help this...

Didn't work! Read post above..

Once again. Sorry.

AB.... 8)
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:11 pm

Hi Guys..

Been a bit busy with one thing and another. Mainly work related and as such not much progress on the gearbox job.

However, I have now completed the mod' to convert the 5 speed shift lever to accept the 4 speed item. Much better I think.

Here are a couple of pictures of the MK1 if you like. This has been done on a spare lever and using some of Andrew's bits for testing. I need to fit it to the box now and test its operation, but I'm confident it won't come slack and will work as it should. Then just need to do the same job on my 5 speed lever and clean it all up and fit it.. :wink: Don't shoot me for the grubby parts! The job's not finished yet!!

By the way. I still have to cut off the lever from the bush/collar, then turn it 180 deg' and re weld it. That brings the lever back to more or less the correct position.

Alex... 8)
Attachments
014.JPG and
013.JPG and
Std Elan top hat nut in place as it would be on the 4 speed lever / box.
012.JPG and
general view. Ass'y is fully tightened up.
011.JPG and
No metal to metal contact. The lever is 'floating on its rubber bush as normal/ intended.
010.JPG and
The cut down rubber 'spring' is compressed by the assy. Compression can be adjusted.
009.JPG and
The std Elan top hat nut screwed onto the modified lever. the 4 speed lever rubber bush is firmly clamped between these two components.
008.JPG and
Made up a little (but strong!) top hat bush which sits on the shoulder machined into the lever top.
007.JPG and
you can see I've machined a small step into the lever and threaded the top 5/16 unf to take the Elan std part / nut.
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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:17 pm

alexblack13 wrote:Here are a couple of pictures of the MK1 if you like. This has been done on a spare lever and using some of Andrew's bits for testing. I need to fit it to the box now and test its operation, but I'm confident it won't come slack and will work as it should. Then just need to do the same job on my 5 speed lever and clean it all up and fit it.. :wink: Don't shoot me for the grubby parts! The job's not finished yet!!

By the way. I still have to cut off the lever from the bush/collar, then turn it 180 deg' and re weld it. That brings the lever back to more or less the correct position.Alex... 8)

Alex,

Did you look at the Graham Boulton modified lever he sent to you?

I'm interested to see how your modified lever works out - my two efforts were hopeless as I failed to stop the bush rotating when pushing the lever across to 5th and reverse.

alexblack13 wrote:However, I have now completed the mod' to convert the 5 speed shift lever to accept the 4 speed item. Much better I think.

I don't understand this, Alex. Perhaps something has been lost in the translation?
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:17 am

Hi Guys/ Brian....


''I'm interested to see how your modified lever works out - my two efforts were hopeless as I failed to stop the bush rotating when pushing the lever across to 5th and reverse''.


I think this is because the lotus elan 4 speed lever clamped onto the top of the 5 speed 'stub' via a series of bushes and washers direct onto the top of the nylon ball (I think?) The Victor method? .... Result is the nut comes slack and you have a wobbly gearstick and problems getting home!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

The pic's above show how I'v got round it. the Elan stick is firmly clamped to the stub with no transfer of the clamping force down onto the nylon ball. I'm not clamping the stick onto the ball in other words.

The bit you don't understand is explained in the pic's.

I did of course have a look at Grahams mod' but I wanted the correct length as well as the correct gearstick. And there was about 4 mm end float up and down using Grahams method, so I did not like it much.

I still have the Graham Boulton stick and can take some pic's for you and post them. (I will ask him 1st if ok to do so...
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:43 pm

Hello Guys,

I trust you are all well? ....


Couple of pic's.. Finished gearstick ass'y lever has been cut off and reversed & re-welded.. Position up through the transmission tunnel is very good.

Had a good play with it gently going up and down through the gears and into 5th and reverse (a lot) and no sign of coming slack...

Hope it stays that way..
Attachments
001.JPG and
002.JPG and
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:58 am

Son and I were fitting the engine on Sunday when he decided he would roll the car back slightly and forgot the gearbox which was sitting supported on a jack. It promptly fell off and landed on the bell-housing with a fair crash. It came down basically to 'floor' (ramp) level.

Couple of things.

1 ... Not related to the accident.. I find that this box sits about 8 - 8mm further forward.. drawing up the engine (now in ) mounts results in some stress on both the engine mounts and the gearbox mounting. Pushing the gearbox back effectively.

The prop shaft (fully recond' and rebalanced etc) seams to be slightly ''pinched'' between the two flanges of the box and diff' . This is concerning me... Somewhat...

Do you guys think it needs to come apart again for damage checking? I am thinking about a small spacer 8mm thick between the engine mount and the chassis. allowing the gearbox to sit nicely where it should be without stress. I am thinking just releasing the mountings with everything supported and checking (the very smooth feeling) prop shaft for 'plunge' movement which as of now there does not seam to be there.

What do you guys think? strip it??

One step forward and two back again....
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:54 pm

Sounds like the prop could be a tad long?

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PostPost by: AussieJohn » Mon Feb 28, 2011 4:55 pm

Hi Alex, in both my 4 speed elans [+2] there was no play in either propshaft in the fore/aft direction; this I never understood as I assumed that maybe 1/2" freeplay was how it should be. I never resolved the issue and it hasn't caused any problems so far but stays in the back of my mind that something is amiss. Good luck cheers, John.
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:03 pm

I'd imagine the prop shaft can be too long but I don't think any play, ie, fore/aft, is needed. The diff is fixed in the frame as is the gearbox, neither of which is going to move with road undulations. Then again, I could be totally off base here (not unusual).

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PostPost by: iancockshull » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:26 pm

Hello Alex

I have been following your progress with some interest as I am planning to put a 5 spd Lotus box into my S4 which has the 3.55:1 differential. I am wondering about the speedo drive gearwheel ratio, my gearbox has the green plastic 24t wheel. As it seems impossible to change the right angle speedo drive gear after the box has been installed in the car it seems a good idea for me to check that I have the right arrangement before proceeding further. Do you know what your set-up is?

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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:34 pm

Oh dear, Alex, you do seem to seem accident prone. Graham showed me today what he had to do to reclaim the output flange you damaged.

From my point of view, the plunge facility on the propshaft is to accommodate all the associated build tolerances, and not any operational movement between engine/gearbox and diff (as there shouldn't be any.

Off the top of my head, I cannot see any real problem in putting a 5mm plate spacer on the engine mounts to move the engine/gearbox forward. You will need to elongate the rear mounting plate fixing holes by the same amount.

I'm sure there will be some other views on this matter.
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:24 pm

God struth Brian..What a couple3 of weeks I've had I can tell you. (later.. Ahemm!!)

I moved the lot forward 5 mm. This gives me about 5-8mm plunge on the prop shaft. Well enough. i just elongated the two top holes on the box mounting and this gave me a bit more clearance around the rev' light switch area too. .... Result! I have made two nice spacers from some light ally plate I had and fitted them behind the mountings. Bang on. No more stress on the mounts, gearbox mounts, etc...

Onward and upwards....

Lots off stress on the go at the moment between one thing and another!!

That's the engine in though and that was way too easy. Just some plumbing to do and Broooom !! .. Then I need to go and pick up my repaired (after the bonnet hurling practice session!) Bonnet from Option 1. Happy days..

Mrs B has had me decorating out bedroom and en suite bathroom. I could have lived without that job right then.

Alex...
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