Lotus Elan

Gearbox swop?

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:46 pm

alexblack13 wrote:I might go back to the 5 speed lever that Graham Boulton sent with the box and just use a leather gaiter (for e.g.)

Looks not to bad though and I think I can get it better. Those pics show it just laid together.. Just a try out really.

What have others done 'gaiter wise'? What have you done Brian?


Alex,

My car looks similar to your rubber gaiter, but then my modified trim covers it......
Leather  Gaiter.JPG and

Leather Gaiter.JPG and


No gear lever as the engine and gearbox are still out - I just put it in place to show you.

My gear lever is the same as the one you had from Graham. i.e. with the rubber spring inactive.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1849
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:54 pm

That looks nice Brian!

I am looking now at a gaiter from an MGB in black leather. it looks like it will work well and I might go that route. I would really like to keep it looking standard. More or less like the pics. Next job will be to test drive it and then set the trim to suit. It looks like its selecting all the gears etc so a drive will be next....

Let you know....

Alex....
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2348
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

PostPost by: iancockshull » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:39 pm

Brian / Alex

Can I suggest that the gear stick could be welded onto the right hand side of a short bush that mounts to the gear shift mechanism, a variant on the S4 anti-sizzle gear stick. It is all hidden by the rubber gaiter and would shift the gear stick over to a more central position. The final stick can then be chrome plated. Your thoughts on this would be interesting as I will encounter the same problem I assume when I attempt the install of my 5spd. box.

Ian
1969 S4 S/E BRM DHC
iancockshull
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 31
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Location: East Sussex, UK

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:55 pm

iancockshull wrote:Brian / Alex

Can I suggest that the gear stick could be welded onto the right hand side of a short bush that mounts to the gear shift mechanism, a variant on the S4 anti-sizzle gear stick. It is all hidden by the rubber gaiter and would shift the gear stick over to a more central position. The final stick can then be chrome plated. Your thoughts on this would be interesting as I will encounter the same problem I assume when I attempt the install of my 5spd. box.

Ian

Moving the position of the gear lever will simply be addressing the symptom and not the cause of the problem.
The root cause of the problem is the position of the gearbox in relation to the centre line of the 'sub-frame'. Before I made some adjustments to the gearbox mount position, the white plastic ring was almost touching the LH side of the frame. I may make a little more adjustment before I put the gearbox back in order to get it central - and maybe I won't.
Gearbox Lever Position.jpg and
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1849
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:08 pm

Hi Guys, Ian...

That could be an option Ian. What I am finding is that the offset via the 4 speed anti rattle bush has a twisting moment on the selector mech'. I have not driven it yet so it might be ok. Time, as they say will tell. I am very keen to try and look standard with standard trim too if possible, so I might rehash the stick similar to what you suggest. The big issue is the rubber gaiter is quite low down and the anti rattle bush (now very securely attached to the 5 PD 'stub') is totally filling up the rubber and is putting a bit of strain onto the selector stick / lever. To re-position it properly might need modding and refitting the 5 speed lever. I would shorten it to the same length as the 4 speed but this lever would need a leather type gaiter to hide the anti - rattle bit. No big deal but a dead giveaway that its not a std fit.

I will have a go at it after I have test driven the car and perhaps ran it in for a bit...

My one is not quite as bad as that Brian. Its not too far out really.. I might just reposition the hole in the trim a bit.

Alex...
Last edited by alexblack13 on Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2348
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:06 pm

A bit late but this is mine,a piece of leatherette folded into a cone and sewn.....

John :wink:
Attachments
2011_0322lotus0002.JPG and
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5089
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:25 pm

That too works very well John.

If I come up against a 'can't keep it std looking' situ' I will have a go at something similar...

Cool.. Thanks John..

AB....
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2348
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:14 pm

Had its 1st run today with the 5 speed box. Big difference! The car is now doing 3k rpm @ 70 mph, and its much quieter. The gear change is not bad too and I am told it will improve when run it. As I suspected it is not overly keen on the 'offset lever' if I can call it that, so today I have been working on the MK2. Still retaining the original rubber boot /gaiter and the top of a 5 speed lever is now directly mounted onto the 'stub' at the box. I'm just finishing off the new ally plate covering the trans' tunnel (remove for access) making sure I have the hole nicely centered. The lever and knob ass'y is much better positioned now. Well worth the effort in my humble...

Some pic's later but its looking good. With any luck I will finish it tomorrow..

Happy days.... :wink:

Alex...
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2348
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

PostPost by: stugilmour » Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:29 pm

Sounds great Alex. I just had my car out for a test run yesterday with the tach correctly adjusted for the first time and the 3.54 diff installed. 67 mph at 3000 RPM is priceless! I used David's excellent spreadsheet to dial in the tach readings to a GPS speed reading. Will do a similar process to get the odometer dialed in as well.

Here are a couple of pic's of my boot. The MT75 lever position is a couple of inches aft of the stock four speed in the Plus 2.

Isn't John's a Plus 2 with Lotus five speed? I think the Plus 2 stock tunnel cover is a bit different than yours; note the sloped shaped box around the shifter. I expect this is where John has attached his cover to hold the round boot he used.

I found a donor rubber boot at the Pick-a-Part that nicely covered the sloped portion. I did have a problem with this boot causing the lever to pop out of fourth as the accordion folds at the back of the boot are a bit too high. This seems to have been fixed by removing the rear screw retaining the boot to the plastic tunnel cover, providing a bit more room for the boot to compress at the rear.

You can see where I had to fill in the tunnel cover a bit at the front of the boot. The selected boot is big enough to cover up this part of the tunnel cover, but then the shift lever hole in the boot is too far forward.

I also got a leather boot from Pick-a-Part to try out. As I had to cut the tunnel cover at the back of the hole to accommodate the revised shift lever position, I could not come up with an easy way to install a leather boot. It needs a bit of a 'beauty ring' to cover the bottom of the boot. The sloped & flat attachment in the Plus 2 pretty much means a custom fabricated part is required. John's solution gets around this problem nicely. Looking at your round boot photo I think you have it a bit easier.
Attachments
MT75 Five Spead Shift Boot 2.jpg and
Shows fill-in of tunnel cover at front of boot.
MT75 Five Spead Shift Boot 1.jpg and
Shows wedge-shaped base for shift boot on early Plus 2 tunnel cover.
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
2000 Esprit V8 TT
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1517
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:00 pm

Looks very neat Stu'...

Been fiddling with it some more and what a difference having the direct mounting to the lever. Just the same as the 5 speed actually but without the soggy rubber bit half way up and a more like std knob position using the standard trim and gaiter etc. Its a big improvement again.

I'm trying like mad to keep the original 4 speed rubber boot and I think I'm there now. The 5 speed + 2 item looks great in your car though. A good quality leather item would look great (Brian's fine example) Just me being me really, but I will get it right. (Think I have now!!) Trying to get it to work with everything kinda crammed under the 4 speed boot just felt wrong. Not enough space for the offset lever ass'y and the knob was a bit too far forward. Everything felt like it was binding and the offset lever was visibly twisting... :? It did not feel right at all.

The only thing I am finding is its a bit 'tight' getting it back out of 5Th. I am sure this will improve with the clutch bedding in etc.

Looking forward to a better run in it tomorrow. If its dry that is...
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2348
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

PostPost by: stugilmour » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:13 pm

Sounds fantastic Alex. I was also going to apologize for the terrible pic quality. We got an 'additional' six inches of snow here overnight, so more test drives are on hold for a few weeks. It was cold in the garage, hence the shaking camera! I say "additional' snow as we still have some on the lawn from last November!

My lever is rose jointed to a rod that goes into the tail piece (Spyder design). It is very direct. I have some 'gear sizzle' with this arrangement, but it really sounds like it is from the gearbox internals particularly under compression braking. I'm just going to put up with it, and not sure a rubber bush would help.

During the test runs last week I took the car up to the ton. :shock: About 5500 RPM in fourth, and drop into fifth and I'm down to a 'relaxed' 4500 RPM. The five speed and 3.54 have utterly transformed the car. 8) Going to be great for my trip in May to Vancouver.

When I was looking for a boot in a donor car, I noticed all the modern stuff now have huge shift boots like the one I selected. The base of the boot is typically large enough to allow an automatic selector with lighted shift position indicators to be fitted in the standard tunnel cut-out. I couldn't find a small round one in my hunt. The early Plus 2 uses a square shaped boot stock; I had never noticed the two seater boot was different.

The larger boot also allowed me to hide a micro-switch next to the shift lever for the reverse lights; the stock MT75 reverse light switch appears to be NLA and mine is pouched. If anyone on the right side of the pond knows where to get a new reverse switch I would be most grateful.
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
2000 Esprit V8 TT
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1517
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:14 pm

alexblack13 wrote:The only thing I am finding is its a bit 'tight' getting it back out of 5Th. I am sure this will improve with the clutch bedding in etc.

I'm afraid it won't, Alex.
Apparently its all down to the diff ratio. My friend has a 3.77 & 4.44.diff for his Sprint, and getting out of 5th is easy with the 4.44, but a tug with the 3.77. Mine has a 3.54 and requires a big tug to get out of 5th.
Two +2 guys at the NEC last November specifically asked the question about this issue and was relieved to know that this is normal and not a problem with their 5 speed boxes.

I meant to ask GB about this issue, but forgot.
Brian Clarke
(1972 Sprint 5 EFI)

Growing old is mandatory..........Growing up is optional
User avatar
bcmc33
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1849
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Aldridge, West Midlands, UK.

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:38 pm

Thanks Guys,

Brian.. I too am relieved to discover the tug out of 5Th is normal, but for the fantastic difference, and the overall refinement benefits of the car I am well able to live with it. It might, I hope improve a bit when run in and onto the red-line Lube. (No?) I wont freak out if it doesn't. I gave it a fair hoof full today after finishing (almost) the interior trim, and it sailed up a fairly long and steep climb in 5Th with vigour.. I am both surprised and delighted with it.. Well worth the effort I am pleased to report. And the sump no longer leaks.

Interior wise... I have had to slightly modify the hole in the trim which the gearstick protrudes through. That's all! It uses the small round boot from the 4 speed and looks totally original. Shift lever is great. It is fine position wise and looks completely std. I have left the std 4 speed knob attached but am thinking to now restore this with a new badge for the 5 speed box. £70 ish. Made from photo / design supplied. Chrome with black enamel.

Now to get the time to run it in and test the new lever design. When I'm satisfied it is not going to go t**s up I'll post the info' with some pic's..

Alex...
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2348
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland

PostPost by: iancockshull » Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:50 pm

Glad to hear that you are well pleased with the result Alex. I am hoping that you and Brian will get a bit of time later to describe the mods that you did to get the exhaust to fit and also any further words on the final solution for the gearlever. Could not fully understand why it is difficult to get out of 5th gear and how the differential ratio influences it, I assume the problem is sensitive to the engine revs on the over-run.

All the best, Ian
1969 S4 S/E BRM DHC
iancockshull
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 31
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Location: East Sussex, UK

PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:40 pm

Hi Ian, All....

I thought I had caused the problem when I had the little accident with the Gearbox during test fitting etc.. :roll: Seams not to be the case so I am somewhat relieved. :shock: Phew!! Another one of those things one finds out as one goes along eh?

The exhaust problem I got round by some carefull heating and bending. I had the engine and box on the bench at the time though and just aimed the 'y' pipe where I wanted it. It is about an inch lower though. No problems with the speed bumps and it looks nice n neat so I am happy with it.

I would like a little time to test the mod I have done to the shift lever before I put up some pictures etc. But basically I tried the version published earlier (check the posts) by Victor? who did a complete write up on rebuilding the box and fitting it. Cant remember his name right now..Sorry. He recommended cutting off the 4 speed lever from its rubber mounted type boss and reversing it then clamping it onto the 5 speed 'stub' via a special made spacer tube. That we found did not work too well and it came slack. I got round the coming slack bit (Previous post) but found the lever twisted the 'stub'/ (the gear lever into the box) and made selecting the gears even more sticky feeling, and did not work at all well with the 4 speed rubber boot/ gaiter. So....another design was needed. Quickly... I cut the 4 spd lever from the rubber mounting bush assy. I turned up a collar which fits fully over the top of said ass'y, onto which I welded the lever at an angle to put the knob where I wanted it and grub screw fixed (x3 @ 120 Deg') the collar to the bush. This helped cure the problem with where the lever was placed in the rubber boot too, so I sorted two issues with 1 mod if you like. And it sure drives nice. It is just snicking the ratios into place like a good un... :wink: :wink:

The short lever though means a little more effort is needed to select (and deselect) the gears. Not a problem though. 1 - 4 are just the same as the 2000e box so far, and Graham Boulton says they will get even better when ran in.

I'm very pleased with the end result.. :wink:

When I've a few more miles under its belt I will then modify my 5 speed lever to fit and return the prototype to Andrew King (thanks Andrew). I want to test run it for a bit before I burn my bridges. As of now I can still go with the 5 speed lever if I wish. Just don't want to have to fit a leather gaiter etc and the lever looks wrong I M H O.. Too long for 1 thing.

I will keep you all posted as normal.

Alex.
.
Last edited by alexblack13 on Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
User avatar
alexblack13
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2348
Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Location: Fife Scotland
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests