Lotus Elan

Bushes and other rubber parts

PostPost by: greg40green » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:58 pm

Advice required
Can anyone advise . I require a full set of standard type rubber bushes for 'A' frames , wish bones diff mounts , gear box mount etc, etc for a chassis rebuild.
The bushes TTR supply , are they superior rubber , are they worth the money?
Who else supplies superior bushes as the common garden ones seem to be very poor quality at the moment .
I do not wish to go the poly bush route .
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PostPost by: JonB » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:22 am

All mine came from Sue Miller.

As the car is not back together I can't comment on the quality of the things, but I trust Sue.

..the common garden ones seem to be very poor quality at the moment..


Could you expand on that, please? I haven't read any comments to that effect on here recently.
1973 Elan Plus 2S 130/5 - UK - Chassis 50/1115L
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PostPost by: Hawksfield » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:03 am

Hi Greg

For a standard road car the quality of bushes and mounts from either Paul Matty, SJS, Sue Millar, Kelvedon. are probably all the same manufacturer and are quite acceptable, IMHO
However if you have increased power or involved in motorsport then you go as far as is required to satisfy the extra stresses.

The choice is yours
Regards

John

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PostPost by: pauljones » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:47 pm

Id second Sue,

May i ask why not poly? I have read pros and cons on poly vs rubber and mostly i think its evens. I am debating going poly as i can get them at a good price.
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PostPost by: jono » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:57 pm

I fitted poly throughout my plus 2 at rebuild stage and reverted to metalastic bushes after only 10k miles.

They all wore out in an unnaceptably short length of time - the poly wore egg shaped within the crush tubes including the trunnions.

There's not much I have fitted thinking it was an improvement where I have not subsequently gone back to the original. Lotus got it right and if poly was a panacea then it would be original equipment on all new cars.

The only good mod I've done to my Lotus was going wasted spark ignition
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PostPost by: greg40green » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:57 pm

Yes no problem in expanding my reason for asking the question.
Standard diff mount bushes deteriorated within a 1000- 1200 miles , when I / we got under the car you could physically move the diff by hand and see movement within the top mount diff bushes.
Rear 'A' frames , the rubber in the bush could be seen sponging out between the two metal surfaces .
New rotoflex couplings 'cack' !!!
I have an old set of these couplings from probably the mid - late eighties , put them in the vice and distort them all ways , no signs of cracking in the rubber , the new ones I fitted , no other words but expensive cack!!!
Rubbers under the anti roll bar and front shocks , compressed and distorted to nothing but a sponge like substance.
About 5 years ago I purchased a full set of standard looking bushes from TTR . I was informed by them that the rubber they were made from was a superior compound and so was the price but the period of time I kept the Elan they preformed very well with no issues.
Yes it does sound a little funny that the supplier of the bushes would be supplying the same bushes with different compounds for retail via TTR , I don't mind paying for a superior item as long as the item is superior.

I am aware that there are different compound poly bushes , don't mind fitting them as long as they are not bright yellow or blue and I don't have to set about my rear uprights or 'A' frames with an hack saw and file to make them fit.


JonB wrote:A!ll mine came from Sue Miller.

As the car is not back together I can't comment on the quality of the things, but I trust Sue.

..the common garden ones seem to be very poor quality at the moment..


Could you expand on that, please? I haven't read any comments to that effect on here recently.
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PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:54 am

I've had various std bushes & mounts from Sue over the years & not had a problem with any of them. The big exception was the first set of Rotoflexes we got for my friends Elan back in about 2014. They were fitted during a full restoration, but had fallen apart before the car was finished in 2016 without ever having any power put through them. Sue replaced them without question, & the replacements seem fine so far.

Regards, Tim
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PostPost by: greg40green » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:07 am

Can I clear up a specific issue that seems to be being repeatedly mentioned in certain replies to my question of 'Does anyone know of a good supplier of a complete bush set for the Elan I am rebuilding' .

I am not nor have I ever made negative comments regards any parts I have purchased from Sue Miller!

I don't know why 'Sue Miller' has been introduced to this subject as the only supplier I have mentioned is TTR ie are the bushes they supply superior to other bushes being supplied by others suppliers.
Regards
Greg.
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PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:21 am

greg40green wrote:Can I clear up a specific issue that seems to be being repeatedly mentioned in certain replies to my question of 'Does anyone know of a good supplier of a complete bush set for the Elan I am rebuilding' .

I am not nor have I ever made negative comments regards any parts I have purchased from Sue Miller!

I don't know why 'Sue Miller' has been introduced to this subject as the only supplier I have mentioned is TTR ie are the bushes they supply superior to other bushes being supplied by others suppliers.
Regards
Greg.


Sorry, but you asked "Does anyone know of a good supplier of a complete bush set for the Elan I am rebuilding' .

I was just passing on my experience of the bushes & mounts I have had from Sue, as, I believe, were others. Not sure what your point is here ?
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PostPost by: pauljones » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:09 am

Hawksfield wrote:Hi Greg

For a standard road car the quality of bushes and mounts from either Paul Matty, SJS, Sue Millar, Kelvedon. are probably all the same manufacturer and are quite acceptable, IMHO
However if you have increased power or involved in motorsport then you go as far as is required to satisfy the extra stresses.

The choice is yours


I see more than Sue being mentioned here,
You asked, you got a response. I personally think its a credit to Sue and her hard work that allows others to reccomend her. She supports us, I think we should at least help support her.
I dont think any post here says any supplier is bad, its not the forum way i guess.
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PostPost by: patrics » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:42 pm

HI,
This is a common question who make the best this or that but when it comes to rubber or "plastic" then definitely the supplier or even the manufacture probably doesn't know the subject in any detail even at a basic level compared to original manufacturer.
People do their best to get things made (thankfully) but controlling quality, then that will be up to the supplier that is if the supplier has any idea about how to control quality.
Even when it comes to metal, I read a recent post featuring pictures of a spyder chassis failing on the front suspension mount - why didn't they copy they original proven design - even Lotus would have done some test work not just "that looks alright".
This is not aimed at any supplier or manufacture but in the aftermarket world, nothing compares to OE. Even today if you buy a brand new car then get it serviced at the main dealer then the parts fitted will probably not match OE.

Regards
Steve
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PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:51 pm

A bit baffled by the last statement, shown below

This is not aimed at any supplier or manufacture but in the aftermarket world, nothing compares to OE. Even today if you buy a brand new car then get it serviced at the main dealer then the parts fitted will probably not match OE.

Are you saying that if I take my Porsche to a Porsche garage the parts they fit will be of a lower quality than those fitted in the factory as it went down the production line?

I struggle with that one.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:05 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with what was said.

The 2 ends of the Spectrum are:

New OE parts made by the manufacturers suppliers Under strict quality control with often their own QC guys in the factories, these are then delivered in bulk to the assembly line on a just in time basis.

Reproduction rubber to metal moulded parts made from recycled dildos, chewing gum and carrier bags in factories that have little or no knowledge of the correct production process, tolérances, limits and fits and inspection, all that is important is that they resemble the original and someone will buy them to sell on to the unlucky user.

The parts sold at the manufacturers parts counter and used in their workshops will definitely not have come by the same route as those assembled in the factory, maybe for the first 6 months of production they will be but as the years pass they will be no different to those on sale in motor factors, you only have to look at a lot of the packaging to see that.

Granted complicated components like an engine or transmission for a year old vehicle is not likely to be made by an aftermarket supplier for many years like the current T9 Ford gearboxes but within no time what the dealers sell or fit will have been re-manufactured.

Are Porsch any different? I doubt it, its just another manufacturer making and servicing vehicles like any other but with a badge that is percieved as indicating quality.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:06 pm

Duplicate posting
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PostPost by: Chancer » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:17 pm

patrics wrote:This is not aimed at any supplier or manufacture but in the aftermarket world, nothing compares to OE. Even today if you buy a brand new car then get it serviced at the main dealer then the parts fitted will probably not match OE.

Regards
Steve


Which is why my 17 year old car with 500000kms on the clock still has all its original parts except the battery, and batteries are an absolute example where the same multi-national supplier sells one quality for the factory built cars and an identical but lower spec quality to the main dealer parts network, had that from the horses mouth.

When I changed my cam belt (the original) after 300000kms I stubbornly refused to fit new pulleys, tensioner, water pump etc, I knew they would not be as good as the originals but how good would the orignals have been after 300000 kms? Well as they are still performing faultlessly at 500000 kms they clearly were OK.

Even back in the day an exhaust would last say 4 years, replace it with one bought from the main dealer and you would be replacing it every 18 months after that, my exhaust is 17 years old now.
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