Lotus Elan

Origianl spare?

PostPost by: cal44 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:43 pm

I'm one of those fruit loops that each time a new find enters the garage, I like to know as much about it as possible. That way, when I buy the farm and my wife is left with a bunch of British cars in the garage she will have more information to sell them for 10 cents on the dollar
Subject:
Spare tire................that's right, a question about a spare tire.

Dunlop 145/13 non radial as far as I can tell.
This has no dates on the molds/stampings or, tire was made pre date codes.
Made in Great Britain.

The tire looks as though is was made right after the war............the big one

Any clues would be helpful.......
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:12 pm

If it is marked 145 / 13 then I think its a radial tyre and may be original on an S3 or S4. A non radial cross ply would carry something like 520 / 13 as its marking, as tyres moved from imperial width measurements to metric with the change to radial construction.

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PostPost by: cal44 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:30 pm

Thanks Rohan.
I just went out an looked at it again.

SP 41

SP TL
145-330.......
would this be the cross over numbers you are referring to?

And yes, it is in a early S3

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:45 am

330 sounds like the metric equivalent of 13 inches. Perhaps in the early stages of radial tyres they also used metric wheel size as well as metric width? Apart from a few strange French wheels and tyres a few years ago the auto industry has generally stuck with imperial inch sizes for wheels and tyre diameter.

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PostPost by: Bill » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:56 am

Gents

I still have my origional spare as well - In 63/64 the type 26 was supplied with Goodyear 520 / 13 bias ply as standard equipment, Dunlop SP,s were supplied as a factory optional extra (in 1963) for 8.10 pnds.
I now run Pirellie P2500 euros.

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PostPost by: UAB807F » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:08 am

Original or not, chuck it away Mike !!! I know you like to keep these cars as they came out of the factory, but a 40yr old tyre is taking "originality" to extremes. :D

I recognised the SP41 bit and if you want history, then here ya go.....

http://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/page/dunlop-sp41

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PostPost by: cal44 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:47 pm

Boys,
thank you. This was extremely helpful

The upside is it has newer street Avons all around..............

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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:19 pm

There has been a development that might interest you.

I don't think anyone currently makes a good 520X13 crossply.

I don't think anyone has made a good 145R13 radial tyre either. (correct me if i'm wrong)

However the exciting news is that Pirelli have just produced a 145HR13 Cinturato CA67. https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalo ... gory/2618/ . So this is perfect. Lotus fitted 155HR15 Cinturato on the Elite (and i have them on mine) I don't know what happened with the Elan. maybe they went crossply because it was cheaper. maybe it was because they were ligher. However 145HR13 Cinturato CA67 is just perfect for you and we should be getting our first delivery tomorrow.
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PostPost by: elj221c » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:12 pm

I just hope they have used a better modern compound!

Original Cinturatos were awful! No wet grip and squealed like a pig.

Never liked Pirellis. Still don't!

Original on my Jaguar. Soon got removed!
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:35 pm

elj221c wrote:I just hope they have used a better modern compound!

Original Cinturatos were awful! No wet grip and squealed like a pig.

Never liked Pirellis. Still don't!

Original on my Jaguar. Soon got removed!


Hmm! that does sort of contradict general consensus.

Which Jaguar?

Without doubt in the '50s and early '60s they were by far the best tyres in the world until Michelin came up with the XAS. it is not something that is disputable they just were.

Maybe you were driving on old rubber.

Any way the current tyres have a very similar carcass that is developed to give similar handling to period tyres, which is the bit you will really benefit from. a carcass that suits your cars set up. ie a rounded carcass with rounded shoulders very different shape to a modern tyre. but they are made with modern up to date compounds that will move water far better than they did in period.

This is interesting https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer ... rticle.pdf
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PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:44 am

dougal cawley wrote:
elj221c wrote:I just hope they have used a better modern compound!

Original Cinturatos were awful! No wet grip and squealed like a pig.

Never liked Pirellis. Still don't!

Original on my Jaguar. Soon got removed!


Hmm! that does sort of contradict general consensus.

Which Jaguar?

Without doubt in the '50s and early '60s they were by far the best tyres in the world until Michelin came up with the XAS. it is not something that is disputable they just were.

Maybe you were driving on old rubber.

Any way the current tyres have a very similar carcass that is developed to give similar handling to period tyres, which is the bit you will really benefit from. a carcass that suits your cars set up. ie a rounded carcass with rounded shoulders very different shape to a modern tyre. but they are made with modern up to date compounds that will move water far better than they did in period.

This is interesting <a class="vglnk" href="https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/longstone/english-website/porsche/porsche-classic-article.pdf"


My first +2 came shod with Cinturato's, & whilst I don't remember too many complaints about their handling, they did squeal loudly on roundabouts or tight corners. It once led to me being stopped by the police who couldn't work out whether I was just being a hooligan or if there was something wrong with the car, as they could clearly see I wasn't going too fast. It took a bit to convince them it was just a characteristic of that tyre on that particular car.
New compounds may eliminate that characteristic, & we would hope they'll have more grip, but surly the tread pattern contributes more to water dispersal ?
I don't know where you're based, but Dunlop, Kumho, Uniroyal, & several others offer 145/80x13 tyres in UK, not sure about other markets.

Regards, Tim
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:10 pm

Orsom Weels wrote:My first +2 came shod with Cinturato's, & whilst I don't remember too many complaints about their handling, they did squeal loudly on roundabouts or tight corners. It once led to me being stopped by the police who couldn't work out whether I was just being a hooligan or if there was something wrong with the car, as they could clearly see I wasn't going too fast. It took a bit to convince them it was just a characteristic of that tyre on that particular car.

New compounds may eliminate that characteristic, & we would hope they'll have more grip,


Well i can't make the Squeal on my Elite. trust me i have been trying. I can nearly get the door handles scraping on the floor though. The handling is fabulous. (mind you i suppose not all the credit can go to the tyres. It is a lovely thing)

i don't think any tyres squeal like they used to. i can make the crossplies on my Model A Ford to do it, but not with all brands of tyre, and they are crossply. I wonder if it is a compound thing? I shall do some research. (that means i shall ask someone technical and cleverer than me in the tyre trade.)

Orsom Weels wrote: but surly the tread pattern contributes more to water dispersal ?


Yep the tread pattern also contributes, but we don't want to change that.

the clever modern compound will make them move water, much better than they did in period. If we put a modern directional tread pattern on as well that would move standing water even better, but the advantages of that wouldn't be so great on such a thin tyre. I don't think aquaplaning is much of an Elan issue.

Also the rounded shape of the CA67 helps move water.

Orsom Weels wrote:I don't know where you're based, but Dunlop, Kumho, Uniroyal, & several others offer 145/80x13 tyres in UK, not sure about other markets.


yeah, but they are modern tyres designed to be fitted on very different cars to an Elan. (it isn't just the look). a classic car will handle better on a period tyre that has a carcass designed to suit the geometry of your car rather than a more modern front wheel drive piece of numb blancmange. the easiest bit to describe that you will be able to see and i guess benefit the most from; is the rounded carcass, which helps make a little light rear wheel drive sports car be progressive in its handling

Horses for courses.

and they look cool
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PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:07 am

Hi Dougal,
We are probably looking at the best part of 40 years worth of compound development since I had Cinturato's on my first +2, so yes, I suspect, & would hope, things have moved on a bit. The handling on them was fine, but I certainly didn't have to try to make em squeal :shock: .
I have Uniroyal Rainexpert 3's on my Elan, & I don't think they are particularly well suited. They look way too modern for a start, but more annoyingly, they have a tendency to lock up in the wet, something the tyre is supposed to score well on. I wonder if the car is just a bit too light for them ? Conversely, I have Kumho Solus KH17's on my +2, & find them brilliant, very sure footed in all conditions & they don't look out of place on a classic car. Both cars are pretty much factory spec. A lot of Elans & 2's now have much modified suspension, which I suspect will heavily influence what tyre suits best.
As you say, horses for courses :)

Regards, Tim
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:43 pm

Orsom Weels wrote:I have Uniroyal Rainexpert 3's on my Elan, & I don't think they are particularly well suited. They look way too modern for a start, but more annoyingly, they have a tendency to lock up in the wet, something the tyre is supposed to score well on. I wonder if the car is just a bit too light for them ?


What size tyre is it.

Over wide tyres will tend more towards aquaplaning. as you have less weight per square inch of rubber in contact with the road. also more modern tyres put more rubber in contact with the road in relation to the actual section width. which isn't always good. and certainly isn't for cars like an Elan. Also they could well be too stiff in the side wall as you say.

Orsom Weels wrote:Conversely, I have Kumho Solus KH17's on my +2, & find them brilliant, very sure footed in all conditions & they don't look out of place on a classic car. Both cars are pretty much factory spec. A lot of Elans & 2's now have much modified suspension, which I suspect will heavily influence what tyre suits best.
As you say, horses for courses :)


I guess on an Elan + 2 i would fit the 165HR13 Michelin XAS FF they are Epic. I used to race a MK5 Cortina with a Zetech engine with them on the front, they were so predictable.
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