Lotus Elan

Tyre question?

PostPost by: JonB » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:33 pm

dougal cawley wrote:Children should be brought up mucking about with Austin 7's like our friend Mr Chapman


I agree, Dougal.. except in those days A7s and their parts were probably 10 a penny. Nowadays there is nothing equivalent that is suitable. It's all too darned complex.
1973 Elan Plus 2S 130/5 - UK - Chassis 50/1115L
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1207
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:44 pm

I remember in the long distant past i was lucky enough to own a 1964 1071cc Austin Cooper S :mrgreen:

The only Tyre that would take the hammering i used to give it was XAS, all the others just got destroyed :roll:
I've calmed down since and the boy racer driving :wink:

Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1280
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: jimj » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:57 pm

I`m very interested in Dougal`s opinion, so what do think to this?
I`m using Rain Experts 155x80 (Uniroyal?) on an S3 and a Sprint with inner tubes, as recommended by a few on here. Without back to back comparisons, who knows? but to me wet weather is when you`re most likely to need extra grip on the road. There doesn`t seem to be a consensus on using inner tubes but the wheels don`t have that extra beading for tubeless tyres. I`m mindful that the ribbing on the inside of the tyres may rub on the tubes and, especially so, as we`re going to Poland in the S3 in August. There`s a lot of motorway miles and possible punctures are a concern.
I thought that, before then, I`d see about removing the tubes or renewing them though they`ve only done, maybe 3,000 miles. Coincidentally, yesterday, I got a puncture and, sure enough, it was on the side of the tube where a little wear was evident. I asked at Selectatyre, who are very helpful, for their opinion. They couldn`t identify a different tyre suitable for tubes and were adamant that the wheel design is not suitable for running tubeless so I`ve ordered 4 new tubes.
Dougal, what do you think?
Jim
jimj
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1081
Joined: 25 Feb 2008

PostPost by: pereirac » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:31 pm

If rubber 'components' have improved over the years with improved technology etc, why are rubber doughnuts now worse than they used to be... Not everything improves!

With regards to inner tubes, we broke down in a MGBGT a few years ago with a flat and the RAC had to recover us as they did not know what to do with a car with inner tubes. Two flats on a 5 day trip so no usable spare... One getting on the ferry on the way to France and one getting off the ferry back in the UK! :(
Carl

72 Elan Sprint
87 Excel SE
97 Alpina B10

http://www.lotuselan.co.uk
User avatar
pereirac
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Cambridgeshire

PostPost by: dougal cawley » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:22 am

Hi Jim

jimj wrote:I`m very interested in Dougal`s opinion, so what do think to this?
I`m using Rain Experts 155x80 (Uniroyal?) on an S3 and a Sprint with inner tubes, as recommended by a few on here. Without back to back comparisons, who knows? but to me wet weather is when you`re most likely to need extra grip on the road.


I think there are a lot of tyre recommendations based on price and the misguided idea that a modern tyre is just better. If you have a modern car, it can take advantage of the differences that a modern tyre offers, if you have an old car those differences are derogatory.

The car industry has moved on and produce a different product, which demands a different tyre. The tyre industry has moved on and made some developments that have allowed the car industry to make developments to take advantage of the new tyres.

If the XAS and Uniroyal did back to back testing on modern tyre testing machinery, it is possible that the Uniroyal might win under modern testing environment, but that would not mean it is better on your car because the modern
testing machinery would be using the geometry that modern cars use.

However all that considered i would still expect the 155HR13 XAS FF to win, because of the quality of it's carcass and it has some pretty clever compounds in there. I have raced on them, they are fab.

jimj wrote:There doesn`t seem to be a consensus on using inner tubes but the wheels don`t have that extra beading for tubeless tyres.


When in doubt fit a tube

jimj wrote: I`m mindful that the ribbing on the inside of the tyres may rub on the tubes and, especially so, as we`re going to Poland in the S3 in August. There`s a lot of motorway miles and possible punctures are a concern.
I thought that, before then, I`d see about removing the tubes or renewing them though they`ve only done, maybe 3,000 miles. Coincidentally, yesterday, I got a puncture and, sure enough, it was on the side of the tube where a little wear was evident.


Without doubt any 80% or 70% tyre should be able to run with inner tubes. However it is my view that some of these tyre manufacturers have almost forgotten about the existence of inner tubes, and started putting things on the inside of the tyre that are not ideally suited to inner tubes.

All things considered as an 80 profile tyre they should be OK with tubes, but people are probably fitting cheap crap. that is what most people do, save a few quid However just get the job right and fit a Michelin tube https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... tubes.html

Generally inner tube failures are caused (more with crossply tyres) where the tyre bead sits on the rim. As the side wall flexes the bead that sits on the rim moves and gently nibbles at the tight inner tube that is attempting to press itself into this gap. this nibbling will show up the ribs on the inside of the tyre. although i don't fully accept that these ribs are the cause, they certainly don't stop it. the cause is cheap tyres that don't fit so well, cheap inner tubes that are made of cheap almost brittle rubber that are not properly lubricated with chalk. or rims that are a bit worn.

My advice is fit a 155HR13 Michelin XAS FF https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... /elan.html it is the best tyre in that size for a car pre 1990's. It is a tube type tyre, which means it is built to be used with tubes, the inside of the tyre is beautifully smooth.

And fit a proper Michelin tube https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/offset ... d-v13.html

jimj wrote:I asked at Selectatyre, who are very helpful, for their opinion. They couldn`t identify a different tyre suitable for tubes and were adamant that the wheel design is not suitable for running tubeless so I`ve ordered 4 new tubes.
Dougal, what do you think?
Jim


For some reason don't want to talk to the people that actually know, because they think we are just expensive. we are right hear and this is what we do 00441302711123

It is more important to us to get you the right thing and have you happy, than make a quick buck. what we will recommend will probably be more expensive. But we are playing the long game. What i want is you chaps saying, "flippin heck, those boys at Longstone know what they are on about. i bought a set of the Michelin XAS and my car feels much nicer to drive." I don't want a tube to be discussed, because the only time a tube needs to get discussed is when they fail, and a Michelin does not cause an issue. Oh yes, as a secondary issue, our tyres look better, but we are only interested in that after we have everything else right.

So next time you go to a tyre depot and they seem a little lost, just tell them to call us, we can talk them through the issue.
dougal cawley
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 38
Joined: 20 Dec 2011

PostPost by: dougal cawley » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:56 am

pereirac wrote:If rubber 'components' have improved over the years with improved technology etc, why are rubber doughnuts now worse than they used to be... Not everything improves!

With regards to inner tubes, we broke down in a MGBGT a few years ago with a flat and the RAC had to recover us as they did not know what to do with a car with inner tubes. Two flats on a 5 day trip so no usable spare... One getting on the ferry on the way to France and one getting off the ferry back in the UK! :(


I wonder what size tyre you were fitting https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... g/mgb.html there is a hell bent determination to just fit a wrong size tyre. MGB handles best with a 165HR14. I would go OE with Pirelli, but again the XAS is great in this size. fitting a low profile tyre with tubes will cause punnctures.

and again fit a Michelin tube https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalo ... gory/2647/

Many of these cars in a true determination to save a few quid on a tyre by fitting a modern one that will spoil the handling, are now fitting so called tubeless wire wheels that don't work some times. here is a tubeless wire wheel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gce9-VU ... ks&index=8

Just fit the right sized proper classic tyre and put a good tube in it.
dougal cawley
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 38
Joined: 20 Dec 2011

PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:42 pm

pereirac wrote:If rubber 'components' have improved over the years with improved technology etc, why are rubber doughnuts now worse than they used to be... Not everything improves!

..... :(


If the donuts available today were made by a reputable drive train component manufacturer rather than a jobbing shop in India or China they would be better than the originals

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 6648
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: pauljones » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:46 pm

slightly off topic, but has anyone done a poly bush style compound for the doughnuts. In a shore thats simmilar?
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
pauljones
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 953
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Gosport sur la mer,South hants

PostPost by: dougal cawley » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:46 pm

i'm constantly baffled by the supply of crap components. Condensers that last 10 minutes, with what was a reputable English brand name. who cares that they only cost £ 3. The time and effort we spend fitting the components totally outways the cost. and when you are sat on the side of the road let down by shoddy cheaply built crap, i just don't get it.
dougal cawley
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 38
Joined: 20 Dec 2011

PostPost by: pereirac » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:07 pm

dougal cawley wrote:i'm constantly baffled by the supply of crap components. Condensers that last 10 minutes, with what was a reputable English brand name. who cares that they only cost £ 3. The time and effort we spend fitting the components totally outways the cost. and when you are sat on the side of the road let down by shoddy cheaply built crap, i just don't get it.


Unfortunately price is not always a measure of quality...you can also buy expensive ‘crap’!
Carl

72 Elan Sprint
87 Excel SE
97 Alpina B10

http://www.lotuselan.co.uk
User avatar
pereirac
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1149
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Cambridgeshire

PostPost by: pauljones » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:38 pm

On the bright side, at least it wasnt a blowout..!!
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
pauljones
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 953
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Gosport sur la mer,South hants

PostPost by: Mazzini » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:44 pm

pereirac wrote:
dougal cawley wrote:i'm constantly baffled by the supply of crap components. Condensers that last 10 minutes, with what was a reputable English brand name. who cares that they only cost £ 3. The time and effort we spend fitting the components totally outways the cost. and when you are sat on the side of the road let down by shoddy cheaply built crap, i just don't get it.


Unfortunately price is not always a measure of quality...you can also buy expensive ‘crap’!


Agreed!
User avatar
Mazzini
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1426
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Location: NE UK

PostPost by: chrisbeck » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:05 am

On the original topic, I'm with Dougal on this, and I realise he's in the business of selling tyres. The XAS transformed my Elan S4. They were expensive (more than new 'AM' Bridgestone Potenzas for the front of my Vantage!) and I see they have now gone over £200/ea., but they will see me out at <1,000miles/year.
The only issue I had was that the fitters at The Wheel Specialist (I'd had my wheels refurbished) were unable to get the tyres to seat on the rim bead due to the sidewall stiffness. A call to Longstone clarified that because I'd ordered them online I hadn't been advised of the need for inner tubes.
Hold your nose and buy 4. I can't confirm if the XAS will fit into the boot well, I kept the best of my old Dunlop SP Sports for the spare. I guess with tubes it will be easy to get a puncture repaired? Maybe carry a spare tube?
Also, remember the Elan is a 120mph car and should be fitted with correctly speed rated tyres, the Michelin XAS are HR rated. I'm not sure what your insurance company would say if it turned out the reason for writing off your £35-40k classic was a Chinese trailer tyre letting go at speed.
Chris
1970 Lotus Elan S4 SE
1990 Morgan +8
2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage
chrisbeck
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 23
Joined: 26 Aug 2010

PostPost by: Gray » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:52 am

I totally agree that you can buy expensive crap, but you can also buy good stuff cheap. Our Focus came with a pair of Nexen tyres that had just been fitted, I'd never really heard of them and tried to get the dealer to change them but he refused. On collecting the car there was a torrential downpour on the M5 and it was excellent, better than the premium tyres on the previous Focus. A few years later I've put Nexens all round, they seem to handle well in all conditions and are cheap (good thing too with the punctures my wife gets), although still buy premium tyres for my Audi.

Dougal, returning to Elan tyres, can you answer my earlier question of tyre to rim width. What is the maximum currently recommended for 4.5 and 5.5 inch width wheels? I understood the maximum width for 4.5 inch was 165mm (165mm=6.5inch) tyres.
Gray
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 178
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Location: Devon

PostPost by: pauljones » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:14 am

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-details/h ... 4354_label

https://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-details/n ... #204096561

Heres my issue.

The above is 2 quick links that give two different products at between £37 and £41 each. A further search on blackcircles will get you more options in and around the same budget.
Hunt hard ish and NSR2s are just over £50 each. A track orientated road legal compound and design.
So for £200 i can have either one tyre or a complete set..forgive me for stating the obvious but i know where my pension will get spent.

Both the top 2 which are cheaper are cat B for wet driving which I consider important over its cat C on fuel. Even the DB rating is lower than some if not most premium brands.

Just my opionion of course
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
pauljones
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 953
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Location: Gosport sur la mer,South hants
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests