Lotus Elan

Brian Buckland 2nd Edition - binding discussion

PostPost by: gherlt » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:17 pm

Dear forum people,
soon the second edition of brian will be finished, I will do the realization (printing and distribution).
I have already talked to him about the format in which the book should be printed, as a ring binder or as a bound book.
Brian said he printed it as a ring binder, because on the one hand most workshop manuals are produced in this way, and it was also a lot cheaper. The latter was ultimately decisive.

Since the members of this forum have some experience with the first edition and other similar (bound) books, and of course also belong to the hoped-for circle of buyers, I would like to start a discussion here. Based on the results of the discussion, we then conduct a survey.

A ring binder folder
Disadvantage: very bulky, unwieldy, the perforation tears and the sides fall out. Advantage: it stays open, you can insert additional pages.

bound book (adhesive binding)
Disadvantage: if too often open, the bond breaks. it doesn't stay open.
Advantage: smaller, handier. The cheapest option.

bound book (yarn binding)
Disadvantage: it does not remain open, but more than with adhesive binding.
Advantage: smaller, handier.

The "unknown" book binding
There is also a binding in which the book remains completely open, the pages lying flat open. However, I don't know the name or the technique, nor do I know it. Even less the price. Maybe a forum member can help.

Thanks
Guillermo
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1967 S3 DHC (now adjusted by Brian Buckland, totally calm idle)
1969 S4 FHC (finishing interior, changing wiring loom)
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:41 pm

There's Spiral binding where a spiral wire threads through the left edge. That is fairly good for opening flat but eventually the pages tend to rip around wires.
Image

There's comb binding which is similar, but instead of a metal spring it is a plastic comb curled into a cylinder.
Image

Staple binding is where the folded pages are held together with steel staples only suitable for a max if about 60 pages and Brian's book is fatter than that.
Image

What you referred to as bound is I think called "Perfect Binding" by that trade, bundles of pages are each stitched like the staple binding, then the bundled are glued to the back spine to forn the thicker book.
Image
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:57 pm

I found a picture showing 9 binding methods and typical page counts.

Image

http://goodimpressions.co.uk/binding-options/
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PostPost by: richardcox_lotus » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:35 pm

I guess it also depends on content and what's being offered.

If Brian's 2nd edition is just additional information on the existing content, then ring binder works best as I suspect those of us who have Vol 1 will look to add the new pages into the existing binder.

If the 2nd edition is new content - e.g. New chapters on federal versions etc, then that could stand alone.

Regards
Richard
Last edited by richardcox_lotus on Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: gherlt » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Hi,
the first edition had 640 pages, the 2nd edition will have a few more ...

Regards
Guillermo
1964 S1 (finishing engine, awainting body repair)
1967 S3 DHC (now adjusted by Brian Buckland, totally calm idle)
1969 S4 FHC (finishing interior, changing wiring loom)
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PostPost by: Chancer » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:53 pm

I am keen for Brian to be compensated for his efforts and maybe even to increase the demand for his work.

Does anyone recall the way car magazines used to sell annual binders for the monthly editions? They looked posh on a bookshelf and had 12 strings Inside through which the staple bound monthly editions were slipped.

Maybe Brian could produce the manual as a set of individual stapled sections each like a car mag for each of the content sections and then sell at extra cost a posh binder for it as described above, sorry dont know the name.

That way when he amends sections he could sell them to existing owners to replace the ones in their binder, he could create new and additional sections and maybe binders for the engine sections only, suspension, bodywork etc.

He deserves our support!

Editted, delivery costs for the big ring binder were an issue for Brian, selling just the sections like a monthly magazine might be cheaper for postage.
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PostPost by: Gray » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:06 am

I think a ring binder as per the first edition is best. When I spoke to Brian earlier this year he hoped to produce an update section to go in the original manual, he said it was mainly the engine section that was being updated. I add other information into my ring binder as I'm sure others do, which is not possible with bound manuals, although bound manuals do have other advantages.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:34 am

I am glad he is expanding the engine section as it was the weakest part of the first edition. You really needed the Wilkins book in addition. Maybe they should get together ? There is much here also that neither cover - roll on the Wikipedia. The sad fact is Wikipedias put the encyclopedias out of business and it will eventually do the same to books like the Buckland and Wilkins.

The more things change the more they are the same ( or whatever that french saying is)
cheers
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:05 pm

I like the original ring binder. It's easy to take pages out to scan when you need copy in the workshop without getting the original covered in goo.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:21 pm

I am going back donkeys years now to my apprenticeship with a big company with its own technical records, publicity and stationary departments but I hope the items I speak of are still available.

You used to be able to buy stick on fibre reinforced paper "donuts" to repair any torn out pages from a ring binder.

There was also stick on or perhaps iron on full length reinforcing strips which would allow the page to be held in a 2 or 4 ring binder as well as other formats, rather like the LH part of the plastic sleeves which are sold to protect loose pages and hold them in a binder.

The ultimate would be to laminate and punch every page in the manual but it would get very thick, regularly used pages can be photocopied and laminated for use in the workshop.

My manual is still virginal as the car has yet to be restored, it has only been used for bed-time reading and the ring binder is too big and heavy for that use, a normal bound one like a Haynes manual would be better. I would actually like both formats and would willingly pay for a second updated manual in another format.
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PostPost by: draenog » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Chancer wrote:I am going back donkeys years now to my apprenticeship with a big company with its own technical records, publicity and stationary departments but I hope the items I speak of are still available.

You used to be able to buy stick on fibre reinforced paper "donuts" to repair any torn out pages from a ring binder.

Still available in WH Smiths - I bought some last year:

https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/whsmith-white-paper-hole-re-inforcers-pack-of-1000/858113

Personally I don't care how it's bound, as long as it gets published soon. I don't have an original copy, and refuse to pay the stupid prices it goes for on ebay.
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PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:18 pm

I am with Elan inthe forest. I like to be able to take a page out, slip it into a plastic bag so that it does not get dirty.

My preferred method of repair for damaged ring binder pages is white electrical tape. I always have this in stock, and I can repair the hole on both sides of the page then re punch the page. I think the repair is stronger than the original page.

What I would really like is a more comprehensive index.

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PostPost by: gherlt » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:19 pm

OK, a small quorum, but a clear majority supports the ring binder. Today I spoke to Brian again, and he too is clearly in favour of a ring binder.
But I'm also a bed reader, and the ring binder is definitely functional, but bulky. I will therefore certainly publish a hardcover edition.

RichardHawkins says a better table of contents is desirable.
Many ask for the possibility of buying only the updated chapter.

Anything else to suggest ?
(I can't change the content)
1964 S1 (finishing engine, awainting body repair)
1967 S3 DHC (now adjusted by Brian Buckland, totally calm idle)
1969 S4 FHC (finishing interior, changing wiring loom)
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PostPost by: Chancer » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:58 pm

Again to ensure the maximum return for Brian who really deserves it, if there will be a hardback version available it could be marketted to existing ring binder purchasers at a small discount and bundled with the punched pages of the updated content for them to add to their existing manual which would probably then become the shop manual and the hardback one the office/settee/bed reference edition.

He probably has as big a market saturation as he will ever have, it will cost a lot to produce the new manual and it probably wont find as many buyers as the first edition, the hardback copy with the upgrade pages for the ring binder manual will bring repeat sales from existing loyal customers.
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PostPost by: prezoom » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:13 pm

One of the great qualities of the book, is the paper it is printed on. While I like the loose leaf style of the ring binder, I will be a customer regardless of how it is printed and assembled.
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