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Madrid bans old cars!

PostPost by: elanfan1 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:29 pm

Is this the shape of things to come? IMHO probably.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46403397
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PostPost by: Chrispy » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:13 pm

It will be interesting seeing how they deal with Classic cars. I understand old buckets of shit being kept off the roads/out of cities, but are they going to say that 300SL isn't allowed?
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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:46 pm

Might keep a load of old SEATs off the road so not all bad then!
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PostPost by: USA64 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:00 am

I dare say few people drive old SEATs for pleasure. The problem and thus the solution probably lies elsewhere.
We are supposed to be having fun, are we not?
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:30 am

Air pollution is a real problem in London and Paris as well. This comes principally from the particulate pollution from old diesels and in season this is ramped up to smog in winter by wood burners (estimated as 50 of the cause).

In fact, I am writing this having been woken up early with a really sore throat...and I live in the Paris region.

As nearly 70% of registered French cars are diesels, Paris has a pollution grading system in place for cars according to their age / the legislator's estimate of their harmfulness.

First to be banned from July 2019 (from the Greater Paris area...not just the touristy bits within the Periphérique) are the pre-2001 diesels which are classified as "Crit'Air 6".

By 2021, cars which are "Crit'Air 4 and 5" will be banned...and by 2030...all fossil powered cars will be banned.

For Lotus Elans, if you have French specific "collector car" registration, such cars will have an exemption for a certain period as the old car lobby has taken the trouble to explain that its members use their old cars on high days and holidays (for the Tour Auto, for Retromobile, for the Traversée de Paris and weekend use seems to be allowed).

I'm fairly sure that if you have a European registered Elan, the same rules will apply: they are fairly clearly "non-smokers" and indeed, the MGP authorities are not taking aim at classic cars, they are trying to get rid of smokey old bangers.

The MGP authorities are also building an additional 110 km of underground, automatic train services to take the Paris region a step further forward in reducing vehicle use. (This compares with 42 km of new projects in London - Crossrail 1, which I think will be called the Elizabeth Line).
Last edited by Frogelan on Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: David1953 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:02 pm

Closer ( well to my home ) Bath is proposing to charge old cars.
http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/bath-breathes-2021-overview

But interestingly in the Exemptions and concessions section they state
"The Government has made a small number of vehicles nationally exempt from paying a charge to enter a Clean Air Zone.

Vehicles within the historic vehicle tax class"

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PostPost by: jeff jackson » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:08 pm

I am amazed that in the early sixties, (I can just about remember) places like Portsmouth, where I was born and Bournemouth / Poole, where I now live had trams and then trolley busses. Quick, quiet and non polluting.
Lets not talk abouit the coal fired power sattions that generated the electricity.
But they were all replaced with dirty slow deisel busses. I particualrly remember as a small child (being that closer to an exhaust) in the summer, the heat and shite those thing chucked out. The trolley busses were much nicer. Earlier this year my wife and Ihad a short break in Salzburg, travelling on the tram and trolley bus. Brilliant.
I still don't get why trolley busses are not re-introduced to our towns and cities.

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PostPost by: Frogelan » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:16 pm

Jeff

I go to Germany on a regular basis and most German cities have trams cohabiting with cyclists. It is refreshing to see.

Trams would be a good solution in Britain, but as ever, infrastructure requires investment. I'll make no further comment as it might upset some folks!
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PostPost by: The Veg » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:42 am

I envy you denizens of mature societies. Over here, pollution is a demonstration of manhood and using public transit is for bleeding-heart snowflakes.
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:15 pm

I don't understand why products such as this http://www.opti-diesel.com/tests/ are not added to fuel as a matter of course now. It is mandatory in Texas apparently, but no where else has adopted it or similar products which are on the market.

The only reason I can think of is that is doesn't fit in with our 'Green agenda' lobbyist's single minded obsession with driving all fossil fuelled vehicles off the road regardless of the cost or consequences!

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PostPost by: 69S4 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:19 pm

Is that not just a posh version of the Adblue that every Euro 6 diesel is using?
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:49 pm

I'm sure solutions exist to vastly improve diesels, but the car industry has left it too late to implement them.

The real issue is that away from the laboratory theory of the old official tests, the real amount of particulates remains very high often 2 to 3 times the manufacturer's figures.

With busy cities, Diesels no longer has any place and car use should be restricted to deliveries. Buy a push bike!

None of this should stop anyone from having a blast on the Col de Turini or the Nordschleife !
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:10 pm

69S4 wrote:Is that not just a posh version of the Adblue that every Euro 6 diesel is using?


I couldn't say but as far as I'm aware AdBlue is just for diesel engines Despite it's name Opti-Diesel usage is not limited to diesel engines - it works for petrol cars too.

It has also been proven to work outside of a lab - it has been tested by a South African mining company an is currently being tested by Asda amongst others.

There is another product claiming similar effects - https://biofriendly.com/product/green-plus-for-gasoline/

I have no connection to the manufacturers of these products I just find it mystifying that, given the chance to reduce vehicular emissions by simply adding products to the fuel, governments would rather adopt the knee-jerk approach of banning or out-pricing cars from the road before there is a viable alternative.

The idea of encouraging everyone to suddenly start to cycle or walk to work is simply idiotic

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PostPost by: 69S4 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:11 am

Robbie693 wrote:
I just find it mystifying that, given the chance to reduce vehicular emissions by simply adding products to the fuel, governments would rather adopt the knee-jerk approach of banning or out-pricing cars from the road before there is a viable alternative.

The idea of encouraging everyone to suddenly start to cycle or walk to work is simply idiotic

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Given the cliff edge that the oil companies must realise is rapidly approaching for their businesses I’m also surprised that they wouldn’t embrace a seemingly simple modification to fuel formulations that would reduce emissions in the way claimed. With the amount of R&D going into electric tech I doubt it would stop the march of the batteries but it could slow it down for a decade or two. If I was an oil co ceo I’d be wondering whether fuel profits ought to be going into building power stations.
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