Lotus Elan

MOT exemption - recent UK Gov Consultation

PostPost by: jimj » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:40 am

It won`t be any increase in power, which is too difficult to check. On Spyder car it will be the fact that the mechanical components have been replaced with something different.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:52 pm

:wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

John :wink:
Last edited by john.p.clegg on Sun Sep 17, 2017 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:07 pm

Somebody suggested going for an MoT and then driving it anyway if it failed.
Somehow I don't think that pc plod and insurance companies will consider the car to be roadworthy or in good state of repair with a computer record of unresolved issues.
Also post collision inspection on an untested car might well reveal significant defects such a worn suspension or steering joints that would be considered not roadworthy.
So for me I will still go to my regular MoT man to whom I've taken 5 or 6 family cars a year to for more than 10 years.
I may get advisory comments about work that needs doing on the certificate but should avoid the need for a re-test.
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PostPost by: Elanconvert » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:55 am

MarkDa wrote:Somebody suggested going for an MoT and then driving it anyway if it failed.
.


just a quick correction......I did not suggest doing this, only that it was legally possible......
clearly, if you volunteered a car for an mot that did not need one to drive legally on the road, and the test came back as either fail, or pass with advisories, then it would be sensible to rectify any defects asap...

BUT does a lack of an mot cert. mean that a car is unroadworthy?.....examples.......emissions? parking brake? seat belts? etc..

why not take an exempt car for an 'unofficial' mot inspection? I think many testers would be happy to do this for the same fee.....? I will ask mine!!

:D fred :D
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PostPost by: jono » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:51 am

I'm fairly ambivalent about this but a recurring comment on this, and other forums, is there is some sort of hidden agenda and it's all part of a move by the Govt to drive classic cars off the road.

How might this be the case? (genuine question as I don't personally see it this way but am far more concerned about this than the MOT question).

I won't have a MOT when this comes in as I'm completely anal about mechanical condition and I now have a 2 post lift, however I can understand why others might still choose to have one.

On balance I would probably have preferred to see the test retained.

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PostPost by: Craven » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:03 am

Separating Historic vehicles away from mainstream cars makes imposing restriction on their use much much easier.
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PostPost by: rcraven » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:38 am

I don't know whether the Government had any kind of a hidden agenda of paving the way for restrictions on historic vehicles, but it was obviously determined to introduce a change in the MOT requirements because it still proposes exempting cars over 40 years old from the MOT even though over 55% of the responses to its consultation were against this, i.e. it has a consultation and then disregards the majority of replies if they don't accord with what it wanted to do in the first place.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:00 pm

The consultation papers show that it's an EU directive driving this. This is probably why they are also tightening up on non-standard (substantially altered) cars, putting them all in one 'Q' plate basket. The UK has been very easy going about this category, and it seems that countries like Germany, who have very strict rules about changes to standard specification, are getting the rest of Europe to align with their practice.

Some light reading attached....
Attachments
impact-assessment-review-of-vehicles-of-historical-interest-road-worthiness-testing.pdf
(476.7 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
historic-vehicles-consultation.pdf
(441.43 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
government-response-to-exempting-vehicles-of-historical-interest-from-roadworthiness.pdf
(144.14 KiB) Downloaded 12 times
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PostPost by: Routen Chaplin Lotus » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:01 pm

Elanconvert wrote:I am wondering how the insurance companies will react to this.....many [most?] classic car insurers insist on mot in order to iprovide cover.....but if it's not a legal requirement....???

:D fred :D


In fact not many insurers ask for an MOT in order to provide cover but instead rely on the policy condition, "a vehicle must be kept in a road worthy condition) In this thread there is the tale of someone looking at buying a vintage car, as an broker with a scheme for such vehicles (and a Lotus scheme too) I can vouch for the accuracy of his report.

An MOT at least pushed you into doing those niggling jobs, horn, indicators, lights etc, let alone major components like tyres, steering and brakes. Many of the niggling jobs now simply won't get addressed, and as for the more serious items some people will drive in ignorant bliss. As the years roll on some cars will become very poor indeed an others with diligent owners will be ok. What is certain is that insurers will look at the general condition of the car much more closely following a claim, rather than just looking at the damaged area. This will lead to claims being refused and whilst people will scream and shout about it, it will be owners own fault if the vehicle is not roadworthy, just as it is now. But the difference is that without MOT regulations some people will try to run cars on the cheap and ignore issues.

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PostPost by: Chancer » Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:54 pm

I bought my Elan in 1992 to the best of my memory, it was a restoration project, a basket case that had not been on the road for at least 10 years.

It did however start with a bit of fettling and after freeing off the brakes I took it for a highly illegal nocturnal shakedown test as I was wont to do back in the carefree days of my youth.

The poor old girl is still waiting for me to restore her, the intervening years have not been kind to her, she will still restart which I do every few years, the tank and my brazed repairs have rotted out and I use a lawnmower tank laying on the carbs, the brakes are now seized solid and all the hydraulics are probably seized, the clutch slave cylinder burst its seal the last time I started it and the brakes would probably do the same.

The chassis is certainly no less rotten than it was and the doughnuts must be in an advanced state of decomposition.

But very soon I will be able to drive it legally for the first time since 35 years :D :D
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PostPost by: elan66 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:44 pm

My crate zetec is only 135 hp "standard" only 6hp more than standard :wink: :lol:
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:37 pm

elan66 wrote:My crate zetec is only 135 hp "standard" only 6hp more than standard :wink: :lol:


That's a power to weight ratio advantage of ......... gosh just under 5% :mrgreen: Mine is at least 50%

I had a good read of the documents linked by the original poster and also those posted by Mark Kempson (Elan in the Forest), what I concluded from them was that as far as MOT testing is concerned it's business as usual for all the cars in my garage. They will still be required to have an annual MOT test after May 2018 and that's fine by me as I was intending to do voluntary MOT tests for both cars as a safety precaution/ failsafe precaution even if they would no longer be required to have an MOT test.

My only concern from all of this is that some of the rules on modifying or altering vehicles are in danger of being changed to bring us into line with Europe led by the German TUV standards which are quite strict on alteration or modification as highlighted by Mark Kempson. The UK has always been quite sympathetic perhaps lenient towards "customisation" or "specials" when it comes to vehicles, and I will highlight the fact that perhaps the UK was probably the only place in Europe that a fledgling company such as Lotus could hope to start up and survive in the 1950's onwards.
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PostPost by: JimE » Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:25 pm

I am sure most of us will keep our cars roadworthy. After all, look at what happened to Wayne Rooney recently when he got picked up by old bill for not having a rear light bulb working. Bulb would have cost a fiver to replace. Now his reputation is shot if it wasn't already!
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PostPost by: Routen Chaplin Lotus » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:18 pm

Chancer wrote:
The poor old girl is still waiting for me to restore her, the intervening years have not been kind to her, she will still restart which I do every few years, the tank and my brazed repairs have rotted out and I use a lawnmower tank laying on the carbs, the brakes are now seized solid and all the hydraulics are probably seized, the clutch slave cylinder burst its seal the last time I started it and the brakes would probably do the same.

The chassis is certainly no less rotten than it was and the doughnuts must be in an advanced state of decomposition.

But very soon I will be able to drive it legally for the first time since 35 years :D :D


I am sure you were speaking hypothetically but... No you won't be legal! You would be in breach of so many construction and use offences as well as having void insurance. Someone doing so would face a myriad of convictions, driving ban, vehicle impounded and if this was found as a result of a serious accident a possible custodial sentence.

The danger is that there are those out there (not you Chancer) who will do so, hopefully they will not be part of the Lotus community but this is a dangerous move in wider terms.

When MOT laws were relaxed for pre 60 cars we saw a lot of quotes for Moggy Minors flood in, the owners were not classic car enthusiasts, did not belong to any club, cars not garaged and used every day for work, not your typical classic car risk. The reality is that certain people were looking to buy old bangers with no mot, have cheap insurance and be tax exempt just so they could drive around virtually for free and hang the consequences. This ruling means that those people now have a wider car pool to chose from.

Proper classics well cared for are not the risk here, it's idiots with that mentality that are.

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PostPost by: Chancer » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:10 pm

Yes Kim I was speaking hypothetically and my username is tongue in cheek but no smoke without fire :wink:

Very interesting regarding the rise in business for Moggy Minors and the increased pool of availability, I was thinking exactly along those lines, imagining myself as an impoverished 21 year old again with the Chancer mentality (which never goes away, it just is subdued by self discipline) given the cost of mainstream insurance for young drivers and how cheap by comparison classic insurance is I would definitely be looking around for a suitable classic to hoon around in.

I agree that it is a threat to the established classic insurance industry where we all enjoy very low premiums and the insurers enjoy much lower risk.

I can only see the risk increasing and the premiums by consequence.

Time will tell.
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