Cassette Water Pump Removal

[summerinmaine]

Yes, yet another question.

I decided to pull the cassette pump and keep it moist while the engine is stored. Everything began well, but the cassette is held fast in the housing and there are no holes to insert jacking bolts. It appears that the pump is affixed with a liberal amount of Red Goop (brand name?).

I'm not going to pry at it with a pry bar unless that is the proper way. I don't see any way to use a regular puller, and wouldn't the requirement to use one sort of violate the whole "roadside repair" paradigm?

BTW if it matters the pump is scribed with "AVO El Segundo" which likely refers to Advanced Vehicle Operations, the Lotus specialty shop that was located in the LA area. They appear to be out of business, as a web search didn't produce any results.

While I have the cassette out (hopefully soon) I plan to drill and tap 2-3 jacking holes. Any reason to be wary of this idea?

Thanks in advance.

Jim

[mac5777]

Hi Jim, I purchased mine from Dave Bean Engineering. Dave or Ken may be able to suggest a removal technique and product manufacturing sources. http://www.davebean.com/ Look under New Products.
Hope that helps,
Sarto

[billwill]

How VERY awkward. Someone did only half an engineering design.

In your situation I would not try prying it off, I would probably tie a small rope around the pulley boss or bolt a U shaped bit of metal into two of the pulley holes and then use a nylon pulleied hoist (engine hoist) to pull gradually on the water pump pulley. (It is unlikely that the pulley will come off the shaft or the bearing move in the cassette). You might have to remove the air grill at the front of the car to get a suitable angle for a pull.

And don't forget to put the brakes on or chock the wheels.

[elansprint71]

Seems to me that you are just making work for yourself. Leave the pump where it is; when you come to re-commission, if the pump leaks, then is the time to take it out.

[summerinmaine]

Hi Jim, I purchased mine from Dave Bean Engineering. Dave or Ken may be able to suggest a removal technique and product manufacturing sources. http://www.davebean.com/ Look under New Products.
Hope that helps,
Sarto

Thanks. It's funny tho. DBE describes their cassette as having "jacking bosses" but the image on their site shows a cassette just like mine (with only the three mounting holes).

I may inquire there and with JAE as to who might have made the AVO conversions, so that I can source a spare cassette.

[summerinmaine]

How VERY awkward. Someone did only half an engineering design.

In your situation I would not try prying it off, I would probably tie a small rope around the pulley boss or bolt a U shaped bit of metal into two of the pulley holes and then use a nylon pulleied hoist (engine hoist) to pull gradually on the water pump pulley. (It is unlikely that the pulley will come off the shaft or the bearing move in the cassette). You might have to remove the air grill at the front of the car to get a suitable angle for a pull.

And don't forget to put the brakes on or chock the wheels.

This is actually a follow on to my engine storage thread, where it was recommended that I not plug the lower coolant pipe and fill the block, but rather pull the cassette and store it with the seal immersed in water. I liked that idea as I planned to mount the engine on a stand so that I could rotate it while I worked. So the engine is already out of the chassis.

But it's starting to appear that it may be more trouble than it's worth. Unless I drill and tap the holes with the cassette in situ. No worries about swarf in the oilways. But I do worry about punching a hole in the timing cover.

[garyeanderson]

Hi Jim, I purchased mine from Dave Bean Engineering. Dave or Ken may be able to suggest a removal technique and product manufacturing sources. http://www.davebean.com/ Look under New Products.
Hope that helps,
Sarto

Thanks. It's funny tho. DBE describes their cassette as having "jacking bosses" but the image on their site shows a cassette just like mine (with only the three mounting holes).

I may inquire there and with JAE as to who might have made the AVO conversions, so that I can source a spare cassette.

Clay Vyzralek is/was AVO

A search of AVO on the forum gives a lot of hits but I think you can see a pattern
http://www.lotuselan.net/cgi-bin/search ... oom_sort=0

elan-archive-f16/avo-clay-vyzeralek-t5420.html

Google "Clay Vyzralek" AVO
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&&sa= ... 22&spell=1
you get a some more

He lives in Pagosa Springs,Colorado now (well in 2000), I have an address here somewhere if you can't locate it.

Gary

ps - do you got a name?

p.p.s. The drawing of the cassette waterpump has been on that Dave Bean web page for 7 or 8 years, I don't think it what they are selling but its an early prototype. I can be wrong, and have been many times. I don't go to all of these sites much any more with low speed internet.

[elancoupe]

I purchased an AVO cassette setup back in 1992, it has worked flawlessly for 17 years of driving.

At the time I bought it, I asked Clay for a spare pump. He asked "Why?" I replied that I wanted one in the event my unit failed. He told me that he had never had one go bad, that it was unnecessary. He said that even should it fail, the bearings and internals were common parts, and should be sourced easily.

[summerinmaine]

Clay Vyzralek is/was AVO

A search of AVO on the forum gives a lot of hits but I think you can see a pattern
http://www.lotuselan.net/cgi-bin/search ... oom_sort=0

elan-archive-f16/avo-clay-vyzeralek-t5420.html

Google "Clay Vyzralek" AVO
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&&sa= ... 22&spell=1
you get a some more

He lives in Pagosa Springs,Colorado now (well in 2000), I have an address here somewhere if you can't locate it.

Gary

ps - do you got a name?

p.p.s. The drawing of the cassette waterpump has been on that Dave Bean web page for 7 or 8 years, I don't think it what they are selling but its an early prototype. I can be wrong, and have been many times. I don't go to all of these sites much any more with low speed internet.

Thanks Gary.

I'll look over the sources and do some more Googling, as AVO and Advanced Vechicle Operations weren't getting me any hits.

Jim

Re: Your ps. You mean like Jim?

Your pps. I should be able to clear a few things up when I speak with DBE tomorrow.

[summerinmaine]

I purchased an AVO cassette setup back in 1992, it has worked flawlessly for 17 years of driving.

At the time I bought it, I asked Clay for a spare pump. He asked "Why?" I replied that I wanted one in the event my unit failed. He told me that he had never had one go bad, that it was unnecessary. He said that even should it fail, the bearings and internals were common parts, and should be sourced easily.

Thanks Mike. I'm pretty sure now I'm just going to bolt things back up, and if necessary, go back to the "fill the block" plan.

But, of course, Clay's response to you sort of confounds the whole "roadside repair" idea.

Jim

[bengalcharlie]

I had the same problem a few years ago. could not remove the cassette and tried all sorts of things, including attaching a dent puller to the cassette trying to get it out. It would not budge so finally I decided to remove the pulley from the cassette and attach a circular plate to the waterpump (after having removed the pulley) with a rough diameter of 7-8 inches which included three holes at the outer circumference. Had the plate laser cut by an engineering place.
through these holes I had some bolts fitted with nuts fitted. the bolt heads would rest against the engine and by slowly turning the nuts the cassette would slowly push itself from the waterpump housing. the whole inside of the cassette was white powder corroded.
In order to protect the waterpump housing you could put some metal plates under the head bolts in order to spread the load to prevent the housing to crack. also apply plenty of CRC or similar around the seam of the cassette to help to free itself. lastly work slowly and tighten the nuts evenly.
hope this info is helpfull.
cheers
Robin

[garyeanderson]

Hi Jim

You are Welcome

Gary

Clay Vyzralek is/was AVO

A search of AVO on the forum gives a lot of hits but I think you can see a pattern
http://www.lotuselan.net/cgi-bin/search ... oom_sort=0

elan-archive-f16/avo-clay-vyzeralek-t5420.html

Google "Clay Vyzralek" AVO
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&&sa= ... 22&spell=1
you get a some more

He lives in Pagosa Springs,Colorado now (well in 2000), I have an address here somewhere if you can't locate it.

Gary

ps - do you got a name?

p.p.s. The drawing of the cassette waterpump has been on that Dave Bean web page for 7 or 8 years, I don't think it what they are selling but its an early prototype. I can be wrong, and have been many times. I don't go to all of these sites much any more with low speed internet.

Thanks Gary.

I'll look over the sources and do some more Googling, as AVO and Advanced Vechicle Operations weren't getting me any hits.

Jim

Re: Your ps. You mean like Jim?

Your pps. I should be able to clear a few things up when I speak with DBE tomorrow.

[billwill]

I had the same problem a few years ago. could not remove the cassette and tried all sorts of things, including attaching a dent puller to the cassette trying to get it out. It would not budge so finally I decided to remove the pulley from the cassette and attach a circular plate to the waterpump (after having removed the pulley) with a rough diameter of 7-8 inches which included three holes at the outer circumference. Had the plate laser cut by an engineering place.
through these holes I had some bolts fitted with nuts fitted. the bolt heads would rest against the engine and by slowly turning the nuts the cassette would slowly push itself from the waterpump housing. the whole inside of the cassette was white powder corroded.
In order to protect the waterpump housing you could put some metal plates under the head bolts in order to spread the load to prevent the housing to crack. also apply plenty of CRC or similar around the seam of the cassette to help to free itself. lastly work slowly and tighten the nuts evenly.
hope this info is helpfull.
cheers
Robin

Oooh, that sounds like a good reliable technique. maybe arrange the pusher holes so that the pushing bolt heads are resting on the tops of the bolts that secure the timing case to the block, so that you are pushing against the block instead of the timing case. That depends on whether the new cassette timing case that you have has retained, in some way, the three bolts that used to be in the vicinity of the water pump.

[summerinmaine]

I had the same problem a few years ago. could not remove the cassette and tried all sorts of things, including attaching a dent puller to the cassette trying to get it out. It would not budge so finally I decided to remove the pulley from the cassette and attach a circular plate to the waterpump (after having removed the pulley) with a rough diameter of 7-8 inches which included three holes at the outer circumference. Had the plate laser cut by an engineering place.
through these holes I had some bolts fitted with nuts fitted. the bolt heads would rest against the engine and by slowly turning the nuts the cassette would slowly push itself from the waterpump housing. the whole inside of the cassette was white powder corroded.
In order to protect the waterpump housing you could put some metal plates under the head bolts in order to spread the load to prevent the housing to crack. also apply plenty of CRC or similar around the seam of the cassette to help to free itself. lastly work slowly and tighten the nuts evenly.
hope this info is helpfull.
cheers
Robin

Thanks Robin.

I was thinking of that after I looked online at what are termed "A/C clutch hub removal tools." My only concern was the strength of the timing case with the bolts pressing against it, but I assumed that body washers under the bolts would alleviate that worry.

I'm still pretty sure I'm just going to button it back up, as your solution would work fine if I ever really need to pull it out with the engine in situ.

Jim

BTW what is CRC?

[summerinmaine]

Oooh, that sounds like a good reliable technique. maybe arrange the pusher holes so that the pushing bolt heads are resting on the tops of the bolts that secure the timing case to the block, so that you are pushing against the block instead of the timing case. That depends on whether the new cassette timing case that you have has retained, in some way, the three bolts that used to be in the vicinity of the water pump.

Good idea!

Edit: But I just looked and it won't work for me. The conversion doesn't seem to have left any bolts under the cassette.

Here's a pic.