Lotus Elan

Freaking Cam Cover gasket

PostPost by: pharriso » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:34 pm

My Cam Cover gasket has been weeping for a while so I thought I'd do a thorough job & reseal it.

Started off by reading all the threads here about what is best to use, came to the conclusion it would be Wellseal for the Cork Gasket to the Cam Cover & grease between the cork & the head.

Took Cam cover off, cleaned off cam cover & top of cylinder head with paint thinners to get them perfectly clean...

Then applied Well seal to the Cam Cover, laid the gasket carefully on top & let it sit for about 4 hours. Applied a smear of grease to the head face & then assembled the cam cover on it. Added Selocs & flat washers, then barely nipped the 1/4" Nylocs up...

Went for a drive noticed that the cork gasket has extruded itself at the very narrow section at the rear of the head near the Oil filler cap. Why would it be squeezed out in one direction? :twisted:

p.s. Dies Well seal go off? I was expecting it to "glue" the gasket to the Cam Cover, after 24 hours it's still sticky like treacle.
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PostPost by: elanner » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:12 pm

Phil,

Others here will have a lot more experience than I, but when I last did mine I followed the same path that you did (attach the gasket to the cover, grease it to the head).

I didn't use Wellseal, but this stuff: https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-29132-M ... B000HBGHKE That said, I imagine that all these gasket makers are similar.

I think the important point is that the goo has to set firmly, so that the gasket is attached to the cover well enough that it can't slide out when tightened down onto the head. I remember leaving mine at least overnight, so it was solidly in place and not going anywhere. I also tightened the cover down several times over a few days to take up any compression in the cork.

Having a leak at the back by the oil filler seems common. It does a fine job of lubricating the clutch slave cylinder and exhaust pipe..... :-)

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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:38 pm

Hi Phil,
Wellseal is great and I use it for this job with no problems but I don't think it copes well with mating faces that aren't reasonably true. I'm sure you've thought of this but, (for the benefit of anyone else reading this at a later date) as you said that you've had a leak here for some time might it be the case that there is a slight warp in the cover in this area that doesn't hold down the gasket enough, but if silicone or similar was used it would take up the gap and hold the gasket in place?

Also, you didn't say if you waited for the Wellseal to flash off for 5 mins or so before sticking the cork on or not? And yes it remains sticky :D

Robbie

Don't think I've worded this very well but I'm tired...
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PostPost by: Foxie » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:48 am

I've used Hylomar, Wellseal, and Loctite Blue Silicon amongst others for cam cover and sump seals, one side sealant,the other greased. The gaskets failed by being squeezed out.

Then I discovered Elring Dirko. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHlDpLSn7sg

I found it a good idea to just tighten fasteners up finger-tight to close up the clearances, then let it cure for 24 hours before final torquing.

Great stuff ! :)
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PostPost by: prezoom » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:19 am

AFAIC. getting the can cover flat is the first step. Use some contact cement, and glue about 4 sheets of 100 grit sandpaper to a flat surface. Use some machinist dye on the mating surface and move the cam cover over the sand paper in a figure 8 pattern. The dye will show up any low spots. You can use a Sharpie in lieu of the machinist dye. If you find low spots, clean those and rough up with some coarse grit sandpaper. Apply some JBweld to the low spots and set the cam cover back on the flat surface on top of some cling wrap to keep the JBweld from sticking to the flat surface. Weight the cam cover and let sit overnight. Then take the cam cover and again move it over the glued sandpaper until you have an even pattern from the paper.

I used Wellseal to glue the gasket to the cover, again weighting the cover against a flat surface. Hylomar on the unsealed surface and have had no leaks since I did that about 6 years ago.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:26 am

I'm planning to use this stuff on all my cork gaskets - sump / timing cover top / cam cover. Has any one had any experience with it? Looks to be good stuff. Both an adhesive and a sealant.

http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML ... 2635284481
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PostPost by: 7skypilot » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:04 am

I use Cometic gaskets throughout my engines. The gaskets are superb and neither move nor leak! The cam cover surface does need to be reasonably true before fitting as the gasket won't fill major gaps. Prepare well, then fit and forget!

The only cork gasket on the twincam is at the timing chain cover - everything else is Cometic (including the head gasket) with so few oil leaks that the sump has some rust on the bolts!

The gearbox, however, does leak...
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PostPost by: pharriso » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:37 am

Robbie693 wrote:Hi Phil,
Wellseal is great and I use it for this job with no problems but I don't think it copes well with mating faces that aren't reasonably true. I'm sure you've thought of this but, (for the benefit of anyone else reading this at a later date) as you said that you've had a leak here for some time might it be the case that there is a slight warp in the cover in this area that doesn't hold down the gasket enough,


I'm going to take the Cam Cover off again & will check it for flatness

Robbie693 wrote:Also, you didn't say if you waited for the Wellseal to flash off for 5 mins or so before sticking the cork on or not? And yes it remains sticky :D

I did wait a good 10 minutes before putting the Cork gasket on the cover. I was expecting it to stick better!

I've ordered some of the Elring Dirko RTV...

Thanks all for the advice.

p.s. What's the best stuff for removing Wellseal? :roll:
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:08 am

Believing a warped cover is the main cause of poor oil seal, I place the cam cover on the head without a gasket and go around all mating surfaces with a feeler gauge looking for uneven gaps.
I use the GREY silicone ( slow drying ) on the head side including the ‘ D ‘ plugs with a little extra where gaps were found, PLACE on the gasket then cover leave overnight, with just the weight of cover, nothing on the top surface of gasket just nip up fixing next day.
Just another way of doing the job.
FWIW.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:12 pm

2cams70 wrote:I'm planning to use this stuff on all my cork gaskets - sump / timing cover top / cam cover. Has any one had any experience with it? Looks to be good stuff. Both an adhesive and a sealant.

http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML ... 2635284481



I have not tried yet the Hytac but believe is similar to Loctite No3 aviation Gasket cement but starts off tackier and does not need to be allowed to dry to get tacky like you need do with the No3 Aviation gasket cement so quicker to assemble. When I run out of the No3 I was going to try this so interested in your experience.

cheers
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:27 pm

........this is the best i've done so far: a cometic (burton) at the bottom AND a thick cork one (payen) on top PLUS no nothin, boys!!! it's awesome this way: no leaks and easy to remove: what else do WE need! sandy, alps!
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:01 am

I'm tempted to do that too - except where there's no gasket between the backplate and front cover and also the sump gasket at the corner where it meets the oil seal carrier. Gasket material manufacturer recommendation is always no sealant on the gasket.
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:44 am

without the paper (backplate) gasket up front, you'll in addition to the camcover gasket leak, also have a leak which "arrives" near your alternator/sump area (where evrything comes together)! PLUS the water (and oil for the chain) which should only go where it's supposed to! sandy
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:56 am

Yes it's a bit of a quandry. The emotional side of my brain is saying you must use gasket goo on gaskets. The rational analytical side is saying you don't need it so don't use it.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:12 am

Lots of experience says use a sealant on the paper and cork gaskets in a twin cam. The gasket is really just a resilient material to hold the sealant in place :D

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