Sump leaking
13 posts
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Post by: l10tus » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:03 pm
I've got an ever present oil drip under the engine and have just noticed a small crack in my sump bowl, it's in the centre and about 40mm long, hardly noticeable, but needs fixing.
Probably due to jacking up the engine previously without a price of wood In between the jack and sump?
Has anyone else ever had this problem?
Thoughts please on how best to fix it ?
Regards,
Phil
Probably due to jacking up the engine previously without a price of wood In between the jack and sump?
Has anyone else ever had this problem?
Thoughts please on how best to fix it ?
Regards,
Phil
Philip.
UK '72 Sprint DHC
Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.
UK '72 Sprint DHC
Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.
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Post by: robertverhey » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:11 pm
I daresay it's
- sump off
- clean
- weld
- sump on!
- sump off
- clean
- weld
- sump on!
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Post by: alexblack13 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:27 pm
Hi Phil,
Answer is no. Unless you have a removable crossmember,
A worthwhile mod IMHO and easy to do properly. Then working on the bottom of the engine is much easier.
Have fun...
Answer is no. Unless you have a removable crossmember,
A worthwhile mod IMHO and easy to do properly. Then working on the bottom of the engine is much easier.
Have fun...
Alex Black.
Now Sprintless!!
Now Sprintless!!
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Post by: l10tus » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:11 pm
Hi Alex,
Just as I thought, have you done the mod on yours?
If so, can you explain which way is best to do it ?
Also, is it possible to get at all the sump bolts in situ? - the rearmost ones look awkward ??
Keep well,
Best regards,
Phil.
Just as I thought, have you done the mod on yours?
If so, can you explain which way is best to do it ?
Also, is it possible to get at all the sump bolts in situ? - the rearmost ones look awkward ??
Keep well,
Best regards,
Phil.
Philip.
UK '72 Sprint DHC
Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.
UK '72 Sprint DHC
Sometimes my Lotus makes me cry.
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Post by: terryp » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:03 am
Phil
Rohan explained to me how to do it a while back see here .....
lotus-twincam-f39/rebuild-nearly-finished-coolant-dipstick-could-cry-t29840-15.html
Its not an easy job to remove and replace the sump in situ but its not as difficult as some other things!!
Good luck
Terry
Rohan explained to me how to do it a while back see here .....
lotus-twincam-f39/rebuild-nearly-finished-coolant-dipstick-could-cry-t29840-15.html
Its not an easy job to remove and replace the sump in situ but its not as difficult as some other things!!
Good luck
Terry
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Post by: alexblack13 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:57 pm
Hi Phil..
Rohan's method is as good as any But... I did not bother grinding the bar off and used my sabre saw. left about 40 mm stub either side. I then welded some rectangle section into either end of the cross member. This solid steel section was a very good almost a light press fit into each end of the cross member. I then Clamped it back into place and allowing for saw drafts drilled and tapped it then re secured with two M8 HT screws either side.
Solid and simple...Removes and replaces in a couple of minutes.
To each their own methinks. Having enough time and the kit I would go with the grind it off and replace as Rohan suggests but whatever floats your boat. I have had no problems at all with the mod and it saves masses of cursing etc.. Worth while.. IMHO..
Take care all...
Alex...
Rohan's method is as good as any But... I did not bother grinding the bar off and used my sabre saw. left about 40 mm stub either side. I then welded some rectangle section into either end of the cross member. This solid steel section was a very good almost a light press fit into each end of the cross member. I then Clamped it back into place and allowing for saw drafts drilled and tapped it then re secured with two M8 HT screws either side.
Solid and simple...Removes and replaces in a couple of minutes.
To each their own methinks. Having enough time and the kit I would go with the grind it off and replace as Rohan suggests but whatever floats your boat. I have had no problems at all with the mod and it saves masses of cursing etc.. Worth while.. IMHO..
Take care all...
Alex...
Alex Black.
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Post by: alexblack13 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:02 pm
Missed a bit of the answer.
You can reach all of the sump bolts but you need to remove the starter methinks..
I replaced the hex headed sump bolts with some socket head screws into which a ball ended driver fits well and the little lecy screwdriver whizzes the fasteners out very quickly.
Have fun!
Al' ....
You can reach all of the sump bolts but you need to remove the starter methinks..
I replaced the hex headed sump bolts with some socket head screws into which a ball ended driver fits well and the little lecy screwdriver whizzes the fasteners out very quickly.
Have fun!
Al' ....
Alex Black.
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Post by: elanner » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:32 pm
OK - here's the botcher's approach!
I found a crack in my sump the first or second weekend after purchasing my Elan. It didn't make my day.
The crack is a tiny fracture next to one of the spot welds that hold the baffle in place. It dripped about a dozen or so drips per day.
Since the car was so new to me I didn't want to immediately rip the engine out - I wanted to wait until I had some miles on it and had figured out what else might need doing at the same time. So I decided to patch it, assuming it would be temporary but give me some learning time. I made what turned out to be a pathetic effort with some liquid metal smeared over the crack (after cleaning the sump, of course). However, poor as it was, the patch lasted about 3 months, during which time I learned that the engine was otherwise in OK shape and that there wasn't anything that obviously needed doing. So I decided to try to make a more permanent patch. I watched a few Youtube videos that showed various efforts and came up with the following procedure.
That was almost 3 years ago and, very much to my amazement, it's still fine.
- Drain as much oil as possible. I left the sump plug out for a week. You'd be amazed how it keeps dripping.
- Sand the area around the crack down to bare metal.
- Cut a piece of mild steel for a patch that covers the crack by some reasonable amount (3/8-1/2" or so). My patch is 3/32" steel, about 1" x 2".
- Try to get the patch to fit the sump bottom as well as possible. Hopefully both will be reasonably flat.
- Get a shop vacuum and duck tape the hose to the sump drain hole.
- Turn the vacuum on to pull a vacuum in the sump. This should stop any remaining oil from coming through the crack
- Degrease the sump & patch as thoroughly as possible with a good degreaser.
- Clean the sump & patch with acetone. Several times. They have to be totally clean and oil free. I put some masking tape around the area to stop any oil on the outside of the engine/sump from contaminating it.
- Mix up one of those metal epoxy welding pastes. I used JB Weld.
- Spread quite liberally over the crack area and fit the patch.
- Hold the patch in place with a jack and something flexible. I used a champagne cork - the dome shaped top seemed ideal to provide some ability to hold the patch at the right orientation. And an appropriate celebration for a monumental botch.
- Don't jack the patch too firmly up into the sump, you don't want to squeeze all the weld paste out. I tried to ensure that it was a good close fit, but in no way trying to lift the engine.
- Leave it to set for as long as you can bear with the shop vacuum still running. Mine makes a noise like a jet engine so I think I left it for about 30 minutes. The epoxy will start to set quite quickly, so that seemed to be enough time.
- Let the whole thing cure for a day or two.
- Clean everything up and paint it well, especially around the edge of the patch. This will enable you to see if it leaks.
- Clean the oil out of the shop vacuum hose and pan.
This is a lot less work than removing the engine or getting the sump off/on in situ, so probably worth a try.
No one could be more surprised than me that it's still holding after so long (just over 6,000 miles), but it is. It's rather embarrassing to admit to such a botch, but the leak is small so if the patch falls off I'm not going to drop all the oil. I keep an eye on the garage floor, and find myself examining the underneath of the car regularly, so I'll know if it starts to fail. When I finally have to pull the engine I'll fix it properly..
Of course, having written this it'll probably fall off next week.
Nick
I found a crack in my sump the first or second weekend after purchasing my Elan. It didn't make my day.
- A bad day.... June 2011
The crack is a tiny fracture next to one of the spot welds that hold the baffle in place. It dripped about a dozen or so drips per day.
Since the car was so new to me I didn't want to immediately rip the engine out - I wanted to wait until I had some miles on it and had figured out what else might need doing at the same time. So I decided to patch it, assuming it would be temporary but give me some learning time. I made what turned out to be a pathetic effort with some liquid metal smeared over the crack (after cleaning the sump, of course). However, poor as it was, the patch lasted about 3 months, during which time I learned that the engine was otherwise in OK shape and that there wasn't anything that obviously needed doing. So I decided to try to make a more permanent patch. I watched a few Youtube videos that showed various efforts and came up with the following procedure.
That was almost 3 years ago and, very much to my amazement, it's still fine.
- Drain as much oil as possible. I left the sump plug out for a week. You'd be amazed how it keeps dripping.
- Sand the area around the crack down to bare metal.
- Cut a piece of mild steel for a patch that covers the crack by some reasonable amount (3/8-1/2" or so). My patch is 3/32" steel, about 1" x 2".
- Try to get the patch to fit the sump bottom as well as possible. Hopefully both will be reasonably flat.
- Get a shop vacuum and duck tape the hose to the sump drain hole.
- Turn the vacuum on to pull a vacuum in the sump. This should stop any remaining oil from coming through the crack
- Degrease the sump & patch as thoroughly as possible with a good degreaser.
- Clean the sump & patch with acetone. Several times. They have to be totally clean and oil free. I put some masking tape around the area to stop any oil on the outside of the engine/sump from contaminating it.
- Mix up one of those metal epoxy welding pastes. I used JB Weld.
- Spread quite liberally over the crack area and fit the patch.
- Hold the patch in place with a jack and something flexible. I used a champagne cork - the dome shaped top seemed ideal to provide some ability to hold the patch at the right orientation. And an appropriate celebration for a monumental botch.
- Don't jack the patch too firmly up into the sump, you don't want to squeeze all the weld paste out. I tried to ensure that it was a good close fit, but in no way trying to lift the engine.
- Leave it to set for as long as you can bear with the shop vacuum still running. Mine makes a noise like a jet engine so I think I left it for about 30 minutes. The epoxy will start to set quite quickly, so that seemed to be enough time.
- Let the whole thing cure for a day or two.
- Clean everything up and paint it well, especially around the edge of the patch. This will enable you to see if it leaks.
- Clean the oil out of the shop vacuum hose and pan.
This is a lot less work than removing the engine or getting the sump off/on in situ, so probably worth a try.
No one could be more surprised than me that it's still holding after so long (just over 6,000 miles), but it is. It's rather embarrassing to admit to such a botch, but the leak is small so if the patch falls off I'm not going to drop all the oil. I keep an eye on the garage floor, and find myself examining the underneath of the car regularly, so I'll know if it starts to fail. When I finally have to pull the engine I'll fix it properly..
- Still going strong - September 2014
Of course, having written this it'll probably fall off next week.
Nick
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Post by: alexblack13 » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:20 am
Nick... LOL....
Good Job / bodge. I see no reason why that will not hold well until the next engine out day...
Result!!! .. 5 star bodgery that works.. Well done.
Alex.
Good Job / bodge. I see no reason why that will not hold well until the next engine out day...
Result!!! .. 5 star bodgery that works.. Well done.
Alex.
Alex Black.
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Post by: seniorchristo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:08 pm
Nice job on your repair Nick!
67 Elan Super Safety
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67 Elan +2
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