Lotus Elan

Twin Cam Engine for sale

PostPost by: Thornts » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:56 am

Hi All

If your Elan is not quite quick enough for you, how about this:

https://www.berlinetta-auctions.co.uk/w ... cam-engine

For sale through our online auction, if a lotuselan.net bod buys it, we will gladly send monies to help support this great resource.

Please note the 711M tall block so not going to be any use to FIA racers but it would make a nice 'fast road' engine! :D Sorry, I don't know what cams it is running but 180+ bhp from a 1760 engine probably tells you quite a lot.

Best wishes
Rob
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:10 am

Be interesting to see what it sells for. The real key to the value is the condition of the steel bottom end and the condition of the head and how much good quality porting has been done to match what is probably a high lift cam and big valves. Half the value is in the crank, rods, pistons and head casting.

If you buy the head and block sensibly second hand ( easier said than done) you could build it excluding assembly labour and work chasing parts for around A$15k or say 10k UK pounds. So there is a big premium for the assembly labour if it goes for 20k uk pounds

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PostPost by: Thornts » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:42 am

As ever Rohan makes some very good points.
The early head was originally modified by Geoff Richardson but to what extent, who knows? As the engine has just been rebuilt by a well thought of 'shop', the bottom end should be in good order and it sports the right bits - Allen crank, Farndon rods, Cosworth pistons etc.
As for costs and values, I understand using an engine builder with a good reputation to rebuild a standard engine is likely to cost between £6K and £8K these days and bills for race engines at £20K are not unheard of though as Rohan points out, that is quite a lot of money just to bolt the bits together - funny how the bills seem to have gone up in line with the values of the cars though you only have to look at what is happening to Business Rates over here to understand why this might be the case!
Of course, buying 'brand new' direct from the builder is always going to attract a premium but if this makes say £10K then that might represent a sufficiently attractive discount to someone just about to go out and buy something off the shelf.
Thanks for your usual wise words Rohan.
Cheers
Rob
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:09 pm

Yes its an interesting debate about what chasing the right parts and bolting them together is worth. The labour is not great but the knowledge and expertise to do it right is rare.... that is what you are really paying for.

There is a tale (probably apocryphal) about a problem that a major paper manufacturer had with one of their paper lines. These are large and very complex and very very expensive machines ( over a hundred metres long and costing many millions of dollars) that take pulp in one end and produce paper at the other. The machine had a problem that the company could not solve and they asked a retired engineer who was working as a consultant to comeback and help them fix it. The engineer walked up and down the line a couple of times and then put a large "X" mark on one of the drive systems and said - "fix that".

He then sent a bill to the company for his services for $20,000 and they questioned him on how he could charge that for just a couple of hours work.

His response was ' $200 for my time, $19,800 for knowing where to put the "X"

Fortunately after 40 years with twinks I know where to put the X otherwise I could not afford to race :lol:

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PostPost by: Thornts » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:57 pm

That you do Rohan.
Unfortunately I just never got knowledgeable enough to place that 'X' in the right postcode never mind right part of the production line!
I guess the paper mill's option would be to employ the engineer (though it should really be Engineer, you wouldn't refer to your Dr as dr) full time for $20,000, have him sit around doing nothing for 99% of the time just so he could put an 'X' in the right place now and again. Comes to the same thing in the end but no bean counter ever has to pay the $20,000 invoice. Then again, I think we recently did the whole consultant thing quite recently didn't we...
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Rob
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:38 pm

This engine would appear to be best suited primarily for race applications with its Weber 48's. Probably not ideal for road use. There is also a decided dip in hp/torque dyno between 4100 and 5400 rpm.

I don't have any direct experience but with 48's I would expect drivability/response in road use to be compromised.

Assuming similar dyno calibration, my engine develops similar peak hp but at lower revs ([email protected] rpm vs 183 @7583) and slightly higher peak torque at lower revs (143 lb-ft @ 5100 vs 139 @ 6060). I don't have the dip in hp/torque that this engine has - mine actually has a slight peak in the same range with a maximum advantage of 20hp and 20lb-ft over the 4100 to 5400 range.

I have Weber 40's, 1700cc (actually slightly less).

Still not on the road yet, but hopefully soon, to verify my expectations of good tractability.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:26 am

The dip in the torque curve is characteristic of a long duration high lift old style full race cam. The dip is typically a little lower in the rev range but perhaps its being influenced by other factors such as porting or how the dyno test was done

More modern cams develop similar power at lower revs without the dip. It could be due to carb or ignition timing problems but you would assume with the money spent that these would have been sorted.

The use of 48DCOEs on an original twin cam head is not a good idea in IMHO. There is not enough metal in the original head inlet tracts to properly match them to a 48DCOE and the largest choke size you need is around 38mm which fit fine in a 45DCOE.

For road or anything racing but in a light open wheeler I would fit different carbs and cam. If trying for ultimate top end power in a light car where torque is not critical I would fit a different head and an extreme lift modern full race cam from John McCoy

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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Fri May 19, 2017 12:31 am

Looks like this engine did not sell.

Indicated as still for sale with an estimate of 8k-11k pounds.

At 8K pounds for this spec, would seem to be a pretty good deal. Might want to invest in smaller Webers than the 48's and perhaps different cams.

I'm not in the market having gone through an extensive rebuild myself (and rather more money, as well). If I were just starting out again, I might have been tempted by this. Certainly could have been a shortcut, off the shelf solution.

(I have no interest in this sale, one way or the other. Just an observer).
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri May 19, 2017 10:44 am

Why is the flywheel clearly marked Bolt TDC and the degree wheel pointer about 50 degrees different?

screenshot-from-2017-05-19-11-42-37.png and


Just out of interest!
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Fri May 19, 2017 10:56 am

8k pounds s less than the parts cost so if its is truly whats represented and and you can get it for that its great value.

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