Lotus Elan

About that engine...

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:00 am

But if Colin were still producing the Elan/Plus2 , would he be fitting them ?

I think the answer would be yes , cheap and cheerful.

John :wink:
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PostPost by: elan66 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:31 am

Jon,
i am putting a zetec in my plus 2 as the original engine was missing and i had a plus 2 before, that i thought would be better with a bit more power to bring it more in line with the "baby elan"performance.The zetec engine is a good though rather uninspiring engine in standard guise.but if you add a set of uprated cams and 45 webers it takes on a completely different personality.Alan(spyderfan)has kindly taken me for a spin in his lovely zetec plus 2,and the zetec isn't as busy as a "twink" the beauty of it is you can potter in it,but if you put the right foot down it goes like stink and i agree with Al it does sound very much like a modern version of a "twink".It is after all a ford twin cam,so it does have a certain claim to be a retro equivalent.I have a mate with a westie with 2.0ltr zetec blacktop on 45webers and uprated cams. He has been involved in car and bike motorsport all his adult life,and he said the zetec feels like a modern old school engine that he can use and enjoy,drive to a track and drive home.
You can also leave the rest of the car lotus and uprate the suspension which is what i am doing,and i know Mike who has JP's car absolutely loves the zetec and says on webers it has a character not disimilar to the "twink" .
I know this thread has been done before but there are probably more people who can add their opinion all the time and to be honest the lotus net library is so big now you could probably find 98% of your answers in the archives so no need for anyone to post.
The only thing i would add is that unless you do a lot of your own fabricating, a zetec with decent power is not that cheap
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Paul
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PostPost by: JJDraper » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:22 am

Another can of worms... This is just one of several similar threads..

elan-mods-f31/electric-elan-t32282-30.html

If you are going to update the drive train, why not go the whole hog.. It is a lot easier and practical than you may think as tech has moved on a lot since this was last discussed. Probably cheaper than repairing and re-plating a chrome headlamp bezel as a percentage of the cost of buying a new bezel (a different thread - See Salvage Hunters).

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:28 am

john.p.clegg wrote:But if Colin were still producing the Elan/Plus2 , would he be fitting them ?

I think the answer would be yes , cheap and cheerful.

John :wink:


I think he would use Toyota engines with Australian made superchargers just like Lotus do today :lol:

This is the equivalent of putting a twin cam head on a Ford block back then

cheers
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:50 am

........just to make it simple: once upon a time a few chaps built the lotus TC!! many a car was BUILT exactly AROUND T H I S engine and WON : so i have M Y noisy (the way i want it!!) TWIN CAM using an elan body - in this order 1st engine T H E N (2.) a few body bits and some suspension! sandy
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:03 pm

Jon,
You have gone quiet, is it peace at last or did you wish you hadn’t asked :lol:
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PostPost by: LaikaTheDog » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:22 pm

If I was building a daily driver... automatic is on the list....then you don't need to worry about gear lever location !
I built mine with a 1980s toyota 4age engine 16v twink. Lighter than the lotus twink so no brake or spring updates required.. it's totally standard apart from engine and box (manual 5 spd) I even used an Elise gear knob and twin Webers...
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PostPost by: Matt Elan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:25 pm

As I'm writing a book on the Europa at the moment I went to see Mike Kimberly and Oliver Winterbottom recently to treat them to a pub lunch. The subject of putting the Twin Cam into the Europa came up, and Mike told me that it was very much to help to cement Lotus's reputation as a car manufacturer - and one aspect of that was using their own engine. Which is why Lotus lost the kit car image much quicker than say TVR, and they had the halo effect of the TC in competition to help sell the road cars.
While I can see the advantages of dropping in a Zetec, I view it as loosing the heart of the car - but fully agree that it it is the owners choice. I appreciate that Twin Cams seem expensive but then so is a decent Zetec and the associated hardware needed to make it fit. For my restoration of a Plus 2 which came with no engine, just a tired 'L' block which had a loose liner I built up a TC for it using a Stromberg head, simply because it was a 1/4 of the price of a Weber one. And if you look at the performance figures from contemporary road tests the Stromberg cars were pretty much identical to the Webber ones. I know everyone wants Webers, but thats because the racers want them - Webers are really good at the top end but how often do you want to go flat out on the road?
So while I wouldn't put a Zetec into any of mine but I can see why people do it.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:02 pm

Sorry everyone but i must reply to this :shock:
If you want to change the engine + many other things my question is WHY DID YOU BUY THE CAR .
Maybe you want to design your own car and this is the cheapest option :?
Alan
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 pm

john.p.clegg wrote:But if Colin were still producing the Elan/Plus2 , would he be fitting them ?

I think the answer would be yes , cheap and cheerful.

John :wink:


that is a big IF indeed... I'm not an expert nor an historian by any means, but I see Colin Chapman as a man of his time and looking into the future rather than the past : what would be the odds of him producing a car for 5 decades? sports cars at that, not taxi cabs...
And we're not talking about period modifications, but what is to be taken as upgrades using a much later engineering or technology : to me asking for his blessing posthumously is preposterous.

Each owner does whatever he deems appropriate with his car, sometimes it's not easy to keep'em on the road, and that is important. But please do it in your own name and let the man rest in peace.
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:20 pm

withholding INFORMATION. like the white house: it's THE NOISE, THE SOUND fellas wich hyou "get" with 11mm lift cams and a bunch of high reving forged bits It'S THE THUNDER : you can't beat a screaming TWINK!!! sandy
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:44 pm

el-saturn wrote:withholding INFORMATION. like the white house: it's THE NOISE, THE SOUND fellas wich hyou "get" with 11mm lift cams and a bunch of high reving forged bits It'S THE THUNDER : you can't beat a screaming TWINK!!! sandy


I totally agree Sandy!

And just to prove it, here’s one “YOU CAN’T BEAT”

a744713d-896c-4fd1-b1ae-dc289df1feb7.jpeg and
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: pauljones » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:00 pm

Thanks Alan, i now have engine envy..

Just been looking on the bay, a couple of twinks on there. A rebuilt one at 6500 and one for rebuild at 4500 that needs a rebuild.

I helped a mate put in a zetec in his kit car, 1800, 40s, pro nodiz, 4-2-1 exhaust straight from said bay.
When it was set up on RR (SRE) he was getting 160bhp and simillar torque. All for a total of £1250 including the cost of RR.

Thats why im swapping, more power and torque.same RR had my twink at 115bhp and 110torques.
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:26 pm

Given time and fabrication skills you could fit a Zetec or similar quite cheaply , but it’s not a straight swap unlike what used to be quite a common swap when the old Twink went pop namely a Ford Kent engine. It just bolts in and works, maybe not so much drama and Kudos but it worked. The Zetec in all applications is designed as a FWD engine, so there’s quite a few bits that need changing, all available off the shelf for a price of course, but those with time and skills have done it. Those without time or skills need to dig deep, it’s not cheap and you do it because you want to.
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PostPost by: JonB » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:05 pm

Spyder fan wrote:Jon,
You have gone quiet, is it peace at last or did you wish you hadn’t asked :lol:


On balance, I wish I’d never asked.

And to all you caps lock warriors there is no need to SHOUT!

Ahem.

You all know I’m not a troll and I did not start this thread to ruffle anyone’s feathers. I get that people have strong feelings about originality but I would have hoped we could have discussed this in a more dispassionate way.

I suppose the fitting of CV joints will have the torch and pitchfork brigade round in no time at all. No? It’s the same as dropping a modern engine in there, just on a smaller scale. I don’t recall seeing anyone advocating keeping doughnuts.

Anyway. It’ seems to me that the original question has been answered; namely that a Twink plus ancillaries will not raise enough money to pay for a modern engine conversion.
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