Oh my God!

[dodo_z]

...sonst:

http://www.zonewicz-faserverbundtechnik.de/

Die Adresse auf die Firmenvariante ge?ndert...

Generell w?re das kein Problem hier, Fahrzeug kann auch abgeholt werden.

dietmar

[hansaxl]

Hi Dietmar, you have a PM. Rennbaron, thanks for bringing us together.

Cheers, H.

[hansaxl]

Dear all,

thank you all so much for your participation and, well, condolence... That's what I call emotional support..!

Jeremy, you were absolutely right about the previous damage to the front left corner. It had been repaired by the PO, but there sure was a weak area there. Well observed, I'd say...

Be sure I'll sue the s*** out of them... I had an expertise made last year for a value of EUR 15 k (very optimistic in the market, but worthwile to show up with at the insurance), so that would be the maximum amount to be paid by them. If the repair will go beyond that is entirely down to the chassis being bent or not. Does everybody agree that you need a special jig for testing this? Or could the test be done without it as well? To be honest, I am a bit reluctant to send the car to the UK for repair...

The front left tyre did have contact with that dreaded pole (see below), but the wheel seems untouched, so I hope the upright and wishbones might still be ok. The other area I could think of is at the front member, where the nose is bolted to the chassis. the bobbins were torn out of the fibreglass there, which might have resulted in a bent steering assembly or so...

However, I will keep you updated as soon as we know more, next weeks or a little later.

Cheers, and thanks again,

H.

[collins_dan]

H, So sorry to see the damage. I can only imagine your shock when you first saw it. In the US, if the insurance company wants to total your car, you have the option to buy it for 10% of their assessed value. So essentially you accept 90% of the payout plus get the car back, then you can go about the repairs. Good Luck. I hope all works out OK. Dan

[JJDraper]

Looking at the picture of the tyre, I am even more optimistic that there is unlikely to be frame damage. The horrendous picture of damage looks a lot worse than it is because the front bumper has pulled the front off the car after a mild impact with the post, which probably just cracked open the wheel arch, leading the bumper to rip through the old repair and then the rest, which is pretty weak. I have heard of people sitting on the nose of a +2, which then just snaps off, if there is underlying damage. Is the frame an original Lotus, or Spyder replacement? If it is a Spyder, seek advice from them, come to that, even if it isn't it may be worth a call.

Split the job into two parts - body repair and frame. With the nose off, it will be easier to measure the most important figure - the distance between the front turrets. This will indicate if there has been any inward bend caused by the impact. Original wishbones are also not as strong as the frame and tend to fail before the frame. Tubular wishbones can transmit the shock, and bend a stock Lotus frame, but not a Spyder frame which is stronger and has replaceable spindles.

I had a driver error related (I still maintain it was mud on the road) off road experience last year which totaled three alloy wheels, 'A' frames, front shocks and a rear axle. No frame damage, so they are pretty strong, unless you are just unlucky.

The body could be patched up, with the old nose grafted back on, but consider a body off full paint job. Treat this as an opportunity, after all no-one was hurt and someone else will pay the majority of the cost.

Jeremy

[hansaxl]

Hi Jeremy.

Well, it is tubular wishbones on a Lotus galv chassis... So, we will have to see... The paint job had to be done for quite while now anyway. We will get it all sorted out.

Cheers, H.

[RichC]

it doesn't matter if the car is "worth repairing" !!!
An insurance companty cannot refuse to repair your actual car to the condition it was in before the accident irrespective of the cost to them .
Don't let them exploit you.
RichC

[jono]

mmm, not sure that is correct Rich.

I think, at least in the UK, that insurance is a contract of indemnity. It only needs to return you to the position pre loss so market value is what you are insuring not the cost of repair if it is more than market value.

I think that's correct anyway. Be interested to know the gospel though

Rotten about the car BTW Hans

[RichC]

my wife's car was hit & was an insurance write-off , and because the car was in such good condition for its age and because there was no immediate replacement available in UK we were told that we could request a repair from the other persons insurance company as long as it wasn't a category B (or A) writeoff I can't remember the technical details ..
As it happened , it was the category of write off which was not allowed to be repaired , otherwise we would have had it repaired at some cost above market value

[atthelimit]

Hi all,

I thought I would just clarify the situation as it is in the UK, can't comment on other countries but the write of categories are as follows:-

Insurance Loss Categories - Quick reference
* Category A - Must be crushed. All of it.
* Category B - Vehicle may not be returned to road but parts may be sold.
* Category C - Repairable. Significant damage. Cost of the repair is more than book value of vehicle at dealer rates.
* Category D - Repairable. Probably non-structural damage. May have been economic to repair, but insurer doesn't want to.
* Category X - Repairable. Minor Damage

In the UK policies work on an indemnity basis and on classic polices normally an agreed value basis. RichC might be referring to the situation abroad but it is not the case in the UK.
So if repair costs exceed the market value or the agreed value, insurance companies can write the car off and pay you the money. The insurance companies can, at their desecration, offer you the option to but back the salvage but in A or B above the law does not allow them to do this, however if the owner is clued up and interactive with the insurance company, garage and engineer who inspect the car a deal for "cash in lieu" of repairs can sometimes be negotiated which avoids the vehicle being categorised in the first place.

In the case of some classic policies there may be a clause which means they will automatically offer you to buy the salvage to buy back. But assuming that the vehicle is written off, there are other claims to be made for Loss of Amenity and other out of pocket expenses incurred as a result of having to source another car. In this case it would be more difficult to find the same model again in Germany in yellow etc and so the search might extend to the UK with costs for travelling incurred and the collection or delivery of a replacement vehicle. It may also be the case that several "wasted" trips made to see cars that turn out not to be as described!

I had a rare coloured Lotus Excel written off a few years back and as only 64 were ever made, to get the same car again was going to be very difficult. The Third Party Insurers were forced as part of the uninsured loss claim to pay an extra ?1200 for this inconvenience. Insures do not willingly pay such amounts and they will need to be "encouraged" to do so and this is where a Legal Expenses policy to act on your behalf can be worth its weight in gold.

Sorry this was a bit of a ramble but I hope it might help Hansaxl and any other unfortunate with a non fault claim on their hands.

I work in the insurance business and you can see my business details in the vendors section if any one ever needs any help on such matters give me a call.
I am an Elan and old Europa owner so I understand how gutted people feel when their pride and joy is damaged.

Good luck with the car Hansaxl

Kim Eaton
Routen Chaplin Insurance

[robertverhey]

Why not just hit 'em for the cost of a replacement chassis and body/paint repairs (including fitting and labour) to bring it back to condition prior to their actions? Plus a hire car for the duration it's out of action. Get a solicitor onto it, or your insurance company, if you had it comprehensively insured. And include the solicitor costs in the claim to boot! They must be punished.

Robert

[hansaxl]

Dear all,

now here's the end of the story with the Plus Two: All went quite well, the insurance did finally pay: The value estimate had been 15 k EUR, repair estimate was approx. 15.5 k. The value of the wreck was estimated around 5.5 k (the chassis is still straight). So what I got paid was about 10 k. Nothing to cheer about, especially when you think about the hundreds of hours which I had put into the car and money spent for all the bits and pieces... But, all in all it was a fair deal, I think.

I have sold the car now to a good friend living next door, who had fallen in love with it a year or so ago. He will try and put it together himself, which should work, as he has experience with boat building etc. There are some tricks you have to know, then it is not a rocket science. We will see how he does. I was very glad to see the car neither wrecked, nor going to someone I do not know.

And me: I got myself what I had secretly always dreamed about: A nice, litlle, and cute, two seater Elan. Having driving experience with both cars now (finally) I must say that none is better than the other, they are just different... Welllll, the only thing one could say is that the two seater is about 300 pounds faster... )

So much for now, All the Best for all of you and your cars. And be sure and park your car according to the laws!

Cheers, Hans

[rgh0]

Dear all,

And me: I got myself what I had secretly always dreamed about: A nice, litlle, and cute, two seater Elan. Having driving experience with both cars now (finally) I must say that none is better than the other, they are just different... Welllll, the only thing one could say is that the two seater is about 300 pounds faster... )

So much for now, All the Best for all of you and your cars. And be sure and park your car according to the laws!

Cheers, Hans

love that comparison - both good just different but the Elan is 300 lbs faster

I would add the plus 2 is 10 inches wide quicker through the corners

cheers
Rohan

[hansaxl]

Hehe...

But then again, don't you think that the two seater is one foot short quicker through the corners, equilibrating the wide track effect a bit..? Just thinking, I am not an expert...

Cheers, Hans

[nebogipfel]

Insurance Loss Categories - Quick reference
* Category A - Must be crushed. All of it.
* Category B - Vehicle may not be returned to road but parts may be sold.
* Category C - Repairable. Significant damage. Cost of the repair is more than book value of vehicle at dealer rates.
* Category D - Repairable. Probably non-structural damage. May have been economic to repair, but insurer doesn't want to.
* Category X - Repairable. Minor Damage
Kim Eaton
Routen Chaplin Insurance

I've only just noticed this and with due respect to Kim the categories are not nearly as clear as this suggests.

There are many Cat C cars which have very little damage, perhaps stolen/recovered with lock damage only and I have certainly repaired Cat C cars for a trade customer with very slight panel damage only.

Simply stated the categories do not necessarily reflect the level of damage.