Lotus Elan

What on earth?

PostPost by: prezoom » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:46 am

In the quest to get the Plus2 back onto the road, it was time to go over the brakes. Install Speedbleeders to keep the better half in a good mood and remove one the jobs she dislikes. Up in the air, with the K/O's (another story) removed, and the left front wheel will not turn. All the other wheels turn with ease. Thought the caliper may have stuck pistons, but after prying back the pistons and removing the pads, the hub will still not turn. Bad bearings? Another attempt to rotate the hub with a large screwdriver, prying against the pins, and I could hear scraping noises. Disc free in the caliper, and finally traced it to the tie rod end jammed up against the disc. Using a jack, I raised the suspension a bit and the scraping was less. Up some more and the scraping disappeared. The problem only exists under full droop.

It looks like the easiest fix will be to remove the hub and disc, place some AN washers, they come in two thicknesses, between the steering arm and the knuckle to space the arm further away from the knuckle. Has anyone run into this problem before? I do have a couple of sets of GT6 knuckles with arms if needed.

On the K/O's, someone in their infinite wisdom slathered the threads with Redline wheel bearing grease. Including the mating surface between the nuts and the wheels. Sigh. Redline grease is really hard to clean off by the way, kind of like trying to remove a moly based grease.
Rob Walker
26-4889
50-0315N
1964 Sabra GT
1964 Elva Mk4T Coupe (awaiting restoration)
1965 Ford Falcon Ranchero, 302,AOD,9",rack and pinion,disc,etc,etc,etc
1954 Nash Healey LeMans Coupe

Tread softly in the grease mud, for there lurks the skid demon
prezoom
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 739
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Location: Escondido, California

PostPost by: Sea Ranch » Sun Jun 04, 2017 6:44 am

That's a great story, Rob. :(

I just finished fitting the tie rod ends on my car and was looking at the spacing between the tie rod end ball joint and the brake rotor. I think I will do some more inspection. :shock:

Is this car new to you? Obviously whoever installed the KOs was not reading the manual!

Randy
User avatar
Sea Ranch
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1030
Joined: 07 Mar 2011
Location: West Coast, Canada (Surrey, BC)

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:01 am

Its because there is not a disc (dustshield backplate) fitted as would be on the Triumph donor vehicle, a couple of washers will do the trick but a proper engineered solution would be a shim made to size to spread the clamping load evenly.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: elj221c » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:20 am

Sounds like a bent steering arm. I wouldn't use washers personally. They are none shown on the Triumph diagram. If I remember the bolts are 'fitted' and the arm is metal to metal on the vertical link.i.e. no paint!

The steering arm dimensions are shown on a good drawing in 'Brian's Book'.
Roy
'65 S2
User avatar
elj221c
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 564
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Surrey Hills, England

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:35 pm

I think that you are correct after reflection, the (absence of the) thickness of the backplate will cause problems with the brake caliper mounting being off centre not the steering arm, as you say it is metal to metal although that might just be the finishing operation, good to see someone still understands what a fitted bolt is and its importance.

The standard Triumph set up has the steering joint very close to the disc to get the correct Ackermann angle, a line drawn through the king pin axis to the centre of the rear axle should intersect the track rod end centre, or in this case with a forward mounted rack the line is projected forward, it becomes further outboard and very close to the brake disc on a short wheelbase vehicle.

The Elan I'm guessing has a shorter wheelbase than the Spitfire or whatever vehicle the uprights are from, Lotus may have used other steering arms to bring it closer, in any case it will either be a bent arm if its considerably different side to side or a build up of tolérances and probably a larger diameter aftermarket track rod end.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: elj221c » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:48 pm

Chancer wrote:and probably a larger diameter aftermarket track rod end.


Ah, I hadn't thought of that! Quite possible...
Roy
'65 S2
User avatar
elj221c
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 564
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Surrey Hills, England

PostPost by: prezoom » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:18 pm

I have had this project almost a year and a half, only starting the major work about 8 months ago. The car had been worked on by, well, not the very best. The engine was a non-runner and the subject of another rant. The majority of the work completed so far is the installation of Zetec, where I fabricated nearly all the needed components, other than the Dunnell Engineering intake manifold, which was also massaged. Again, thanks to all of those who contributed to the Mods Section on Zetec installations in a Plus2. I have always maintained, plagiarism is the most sincere form of flattery.

The dust shields are in place, including the splash shields at the rear. I gave some minor thought about doing some minor grinding on the tie rod end. However, the rubber grease boot would still make contact, as it does now, even before the metal to metal contact. Any spacers, fabricated or the use of precision washers, would be used at both attachment points, providing even contact. So, maybe a combination of both grinding and spacing.

I think I am in agreement on the aftermarket, hecho de Bangladesh, tie rod ends. Even replacing them would probably result in the same sort of quality control, and the existing ones look brand new. Any spacing would at the absolute minimum. I am thinking something like .0625" may be sufficient. Any change in toe, is easily taken care of with my Dunlop gauges, which was on the "to do" list anyway, along with ride height and lower control arm position, as I never weighed the removed TC and the new Zetec.

On grease removal, only recently I have discovered one of the best products to use. In the past 60 years of working on cars, I always told my mom, and then my wife, "Don't due the evening dishes, I will do them when I quit working on the car", thus having clean hands before retiring. We recently inherited several bottles of Ivory dishwashing liquid. Not wanting to throw it away, I took a bottle to the shop sink. Using it and a finger nail brush, it remove grease and grime better than any of the commercial hand cleaning products I have ever used. And as the bottle says, will not remove natural oils from skin. Now my wife can go back to washing the eventing dishes.
Rob Walker
26-4889
50-0315N
1964 Sabra GT
1964 Elva Mk4T Coupe (awaiting restoration)
1965 Ford Falcon Ranchero, 302,AOD,9",rack and pinion,disc,etc,etc,etc
1954 Nash Healey LeMans Coupe

Tread softly in the grease mud, for there lurks the skid demon
prezoom
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 739
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Location: Escondido, California

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:20 pm

That is the reason that I still refuse to have a dishwasher.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 5:26 pm

On my Caterham that I raced the track rod end would get so hot from heat radiated from the brake disc that the grease would extrude out, eventually the gaiter shrivelled and melted.

And it was a lightweight bike engined car so the brakes did not get a hammering.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: prezoom » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:28 am

Well, the mystery is solved. Should have put money on it. The great unwashed had been working on the car again. When I removed the steering arm, low and behold there was a .056" washer between the steering arm and the knuckles at the rear most securing bolt. That was enough to shift the far end of the arm closer to the brake disc. Removed the washer, bolted things back up, and there was all of a sudden, ample clearance between the tie rod end and the disc. Thanks for all of the suggestions, it was just a matter of finding out what the less than talented had foisted upon me. Oh, all the threads on the K/O pieces are now squeaky clean, along with the contact areas of the wheels. I certainly feel a whole lot better tonight. Though the margaritas may have helped.
Rob Walker
26-4889
50-0315N
1964 Sabra GT
1964 Elva Mk4T Coupe (awaiting restoration)
1965 Ford Falcon Ranchero, 302,AOD,9",rack and pinion,disc,etc,etc,etc
1954 Nash Healey LeMans Coupe

Tread softly in the grease mud, for there lurks the skid demon
prezoom
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 739
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Location: Escondido, California

PostPost by: ncm » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:09 pm

Just to defend the great unwashed, what you have just removed is meant to be there..we discussed this Last December lotus-suspension-f42/spacer-050-6104-t38522.html. Why Triumph/Lotus fitted it remains a mystery though.

Brian.
ncm
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 99
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
Location: Derbyshire

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests