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Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:19 am
by 1owner69Elan
The car (Crossle 5s) in the link below is powered by a Dave Vegher Lotus Twincam. Quite impressive and sounds great:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6XZV80oBhUY

Vegher twincam race build:
208 hp @ 8600 , 138 lb-ft @ 6700

Of course I may a bit biased:

3e47f9c7-7ee0-4602-a7b9-cfe718e84f9e.jpeg and

Vegher twincam street build:
181 hp @ 6900 , 143 lb-ft @ 5100 (~flat)
40DCOE’s, 32mm chokes, stroked, very tractable low to high rpm, 7k redline

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:29 am
by gjz30075
181 hp with 40s? No replacement for displacement? Excellent torque!

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:53 am
by EPC 394J
The other cars on that racetrack look to be driving dangerously slow! :shock:

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:16 pm
by Chancer
So does the person in the video whenever there is a corner or approaching one.

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:22 pm
by 1owner69Elan
Same car. Different driver (first time). Seems to be faster as he becomes accustomed to the car. Lap time, from what I understand is pretty good, especially in an unfamiliar car.

Oops: Correct link is a shown in later post.

"Onboard Ethan Shippert of Veloce Motors West in a 1963 Crossle 5s prepped by Adkins Creech at the 2017 WeatherTech international challenge presented by Hawk at Road America. First time driving the car with a fast lap of 2:30.290. Engine built by Dave Vegher of Veloce Motors West."

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:08 pm
by Chancer
The video was of real estate, a shame as I would really like to see the vehicle unleashed.

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:26 pm
by Chancer
Found the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQFkTWI9c6I

That gives a better idea of its capabilities, the 1st time driver is a real gentleman, respectfull of others and with nothing to prove, the video that auto-follows is the car in a race with I would guess the original slow driver.

What a difference.

Very impressive vehicle and engine.

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:44 pm
by 1owner69Elan
Thanks for posting the correct link.

The first time driver, Ethan Shippert, is a gentleman off the track as well. Works at Veloce West with Dave Vegher.

There was an interview with Ethan on the Vintage Racing Podcast earlier this year.

I've never seen him action but hear he is a pretty good driver. Not a bad guy to a carry on a bit of Vegher's driving legacy (3 time SCCA National Champion: in a monster Elan)

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:20 pm
by 1owner69Elan
gjz30075 wrote:181 hp with 40s? No replacement for displacement? Excellent torque!


Displacement is 1700 (actually a little less). Lot of things went into this type of performance, not just displacement:

1. Modern, "replica", Weber head (SAS Engineering). With Vegher tweaks.
2. Valves (Manley): Intake: 1.625" Exhaust: 1.375"
2. Original short deck block
3. Cams (Kent): High lift (.440), short duration (250 degrees at .050" lift). I guess similar to McCoy's and others.
4. CP racing forged pistons, custom. Further machined to achieve 10.2 CR (pump gas).
5. Long (4.928") rods (Formula Ford) with ARP 2000 bolts. Dave was not interested in the "Bean stroked" approach of using the stock rods (4.8") coupled with special pistons when I brought it up - only said he knew what worked (obviously).
6. Balanced/shot peened SCCA/SCAT crank
7. Big bore exhaust
8. Very large, custom "26r" airbox (stock version robbed 7 hp).

Primary factor has to be Dave Vegher and his many decades of building twincams and knowing how all the bits work together. There are a number of "master" twincam builders (though perhaps not a lot) out there that can work their similar "magic". I just hope their skill/knowledge gets passed along to the next generation.

The use of 40 DCOE's and 32mm chokes seems to belie the common wisdom that you can't get something like 181 hp and 143 torque out of a twincam in such a configuration and need bigger chokes/carbs to get to these levels. For a road car, the smaller configuration would seem to lend itself to better tractability. I can only attest that the car does well on the road, from a standing start and picking up cleanly and with power through low to higher revs. It has been a long time since I drove the car in stock form, so the memory fades. But it is definitely quicker now without discarding its road manners.

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:45 pm
by gjz30075
Thanks so much for that info ^^ ! I'm at 1720cc, slightly less cam, 33mm chokes (40s) with an older
TC head, putting out 150hp and 135 lb/ft of torque. And it was done about 15 years ago. Technology and knowledge is quite different today, I'm sure. The details matter.

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:09 pm
by el-saturn
what's inside / jetting?? mine has F11s, 135 mains, 180, 45 F9, 34 chokes and close to 11mm lift (the race springs package) - 145mains were too much and the 210s needed the 180s! --- no dyno: just local road tests - maybe soemthing could be even better?!?!?! any good ideas fellas?? sandy

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:46 pm
by 1owner69Elan
For the dyno runs (181hp, 143 lb-ft), the setup was:

CR:10.25
Pump gas (91 octane US)
33 deg adv
Weber 40DCOE 151 (new)
Chokes: 32
E-tube: F16
Pump: 40
Idle: 45F9
Air: 165
Fuel: 140
2" air horns, stock

After driving the car on the road, changes made for improved tractability:

Idle: 50F6
Air: 180

This is all at relatively mild ambient temperatures (70 F) and near sea level.

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:21 pm
by Frogelan
Very interesting approach.

I'm look for a large air box for my 1965 S1 1/2 and the one in your photo looks very effective.

Does Dave Vegher sell his creations outside California ?

I have found his Facebook page but no trace of the VMW website or phone number!

All ideas will be welcomed.

Andrew (in France)

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:32 pm
by Davidb
I talked to Dave Vegher a few months ago about this. He said the guy who made the airbox had retired/quit and DV had no further interest in making any.

The guy in the UK-also named Dave-seems to be our best hope. I got one from him and it is nicely made., but for an S4 and my car is an S2 so I have to modify it. His contact details are here somewhere-just do a forum search with 'airbox"

Re: Sweet sounding twincam

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:48 pm
by cudabenefast
Just received my airbox from Dave - lovely job and very good service.

Peter