Lotus Elan

Spa Summer Classic 2019 - 22 Elans taking part !

PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:21 pm

Frogelan wrote:Chaps,

I have not yet got round to sorting out a manifold (I have bought a S/H one but it has yet to arrive) but I think that the key issue is the shape of the homologated manifold, rather than the issues relating to the body.

FIA Exhaust manifold.jpg


This photo is screen snapped from the FIA Database.

I hope this helps!


The TTR headers are bigger diameter pipes with bigger loops on No 3 and 4 to get better pipe lengths compared to this FIA photo. This leads to the closer approach to the firewall and the need to cut out the firewall if you dont move the engine forward or want to move it back as far as possible.

So is compliance with the FIA photo required for genuine 26 R and replicas in Europe or are other versions allowed if you can demonstrate use in the period?

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PostPost by: nmauduit » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:40 pm

rgh0 wrote:So is compliance with the FIA photo required for genuine 26 R and replicas in Europe or are other versions allowed if you can demonstrate use in the period?


my guess is that it would be hard enough to demonstrate that ones car had a specific header in period and be tolerated to race with it (as long as you don't win probably...), but next to impossible to replicate said specific header to use it on an other car.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:55 pm

"as long as you dont win" is often the key criteria on whats allowed here also :lol:

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PostPost by: Frogelan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:06 pm

As requested by Nicolas, here are some more photos of Elans that took part:
Attachments
img_20190629_1102537.jpg and
img_20190628_0942584.jpg and
1561799848412.jpg and
1561713475736.jpg and
1561712240889.jpg and
1561711847073.jpg and
1561710481475.jpg and
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PostPost by: bigvalvehead » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:01 pm

Hi Rohan
I didn't realise that the 4 into 1 system gave that much more power.
Does it effect the torque at all?

Pic of the system which I still have.
This shows it with a small silencer I also have the straight throgh pipe as well.
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PostPost by: 661 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:02 pm

nmauduit wrote:
Frogelan wrote:https://historicdb.fia.com/car/lotus-elan

This photo is screen snapped from the FIA Database.



yes, the certifying body https://historicdb.fia.com/car/lotus-elan specifies

Any standard part may be used.

Weber 45 DCOE may be used as per Extension D/V.
Airbox may be used providing they meet the period specification.
For Period F, GTS cars, dry sumps are not permitted.
Both aluminium and magnesium materials are allowed for bell housing, gearbox casing, tail shaft housing and differential housing.
High-capacity aluminium radiators may be used as well as header tank as period Homologation includes a high-capacity aluminium radiator and header tank.
Exhaust manifold must be as per Homologation Form No. 127.

Ford/Lotus Twin Cam engines: for cars of Period F the only main bearing caps admitted are the semi-circular ones to the original period specification. The cast iron main bearing caps for Ford/ Lotus Twin Cam 1558cm3 engines manufactured by Classic Motorsport Ltd are accepted as a replacement part. All replacement parts carry the number 95.1.


and the header competition option to replace the cast iron one :

competition_exhaust_manifold_as_per_homologation_form_no._127..jpeg


ps: thank you Andrew for the Spa elan photos, I can never have enough of these...


That is interesting. In particular about the gearbox casing.
I couldn't find the quote you have highlighted within the document
I have just been speaking with Jim Lowry who will be overseeing my FIA passport. He says for period F gearbox casings must be iron. He will not accept alloy.

To keep on thread.......my TTR header has about a thick finger gap to the bulkhead.
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:24 pm

Regarding TTR exhaust manifold clearance to bulkhead:

I have about a 1 cm gap between last pipe and the bulkhead. The head to bulkhead clearance (indicating engine placement) is about 3.5 cm. This is using standard (non-race, albeit "uprated") motor mounts from TTR.

The 1 cm gap doesn't leave much room for variations in bodies, manifolds, or engine mountings before interference with the bulkhead might occur.
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:33 am

661 wrote:That is interesting. In particular about the gearbox casing.
I couldn't find the quote you have highlighted within the document


from the link above you click on "toolbox" then on the default tab ("engine and drivetrain") there are 3 photos (the 2 types of headers and the air box) and the quoted text

good luck with the HTP passport, please share your experience on that qualifying step (PM if not publishable...)
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:21 am

With the respect to the HTP, the main issue is that different inspectors have different "priorities".

Thank you Nicolas for the point you have made, although I suspect it is yet another oversight as Form 127 mentions the iron Ford casing.

A number of competitors at Spa Francorchamps have mentioned that the later airbox (square shaped) is verboten. These are like hens' teeth to find. The solution is simply to present the car for the HTP without the air box...or to borrow one for the occasion.

I have not published other photos of cars here as I feel it is unsporting to point out minor infringements.

What is clear is that outlandishly modified cars (wide tracked Cobras with BTCC stressed cages and pistons so large that the measuring equipment will not work...) and being waved through without challenge. These are a danger to other competitors and the public.
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:36 am

Frogelan wrote:With the respect to the HTP, the main issue is that different inspectors have different "priorities".

indeed, the certification aspect of vintage racing appears not to be the most scientific one...

Frogelan wrote: although I suspect it is yet another oversight as Form 127 mentions the iron Ford casing.
.

even though I'm planning to use a cast iron gearbox casing, I would think that since the FIA operates in a cumulative fashion (adding layers of regulations) as long as they don't top it of with an explicit statement banning lightweight materials for the casing one should still be able to argue... but like with any authority, they can make your life miserable even if (or even more so when) they are wrong, so it may not be worth the effort arguing.

jurisprudence would of course tell the current tendency, and feedback from recent certifications would be of interest for any candidate in the future (like myself...)
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:06 pm

where there is some area of interpretation possible in the HTP certifications you would hope that the FIA would provided details of the officially accepted interpretation of things like gearbox casing or header design to minimise the variation between inspectors. We unfortunately have the same huge and unexplained variation in interpretation between car types in my class.

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PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:56 pm

For our distant friends who might like to see Spa from inside an Elan, I would like to recommend you to have a look at this YouTube by (dutchman?) Bob Stevens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoa1ssZmVNs&t=1098s

It is entitled : Spa Summer Classic NKHTGT Lotus Elan van laatste tot P3 (from last place to 3rd).

Bob is clearly very handy behind the wheel (but don't watch this while sipping a beer, it might go up your nose) !

I still hoping that Paul Tooms whose YouTube stage name is "Moneyintonoise" will also let us have his latest production (his car is shown on the photos above). If you read this Paul , you are quite correct about the qualifying time set by David Pittard. DP also set some very fine times in this years 24 race on the Nordschleife (M4 from memory).
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PostPost by: nmauduit » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:13 pm

nice action ! love it (except for the fat grey car that tends to block the way, then just waiting for a straight to outpower the elan - we have a word for that here that would translate like "driving like a horse" - conduire comme un bourrin )

his gearbox shifts real quick... would it still be a dog engagement ?

ps: David R (dunclentdr1) may have noticed that turns 19/20 (chicane) are downshifted into first...
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:55 pm

The fat grey car is a Shelby Cobra "continuation" (replica). It is driven in the manner that most big engined cars are driven at Spa (and laughably slowly through Eau Rouge / Raidillon).

It certainly has quite a fair amount of ooomph in a straight line but has to brake early.

Bob Stevens does seem to change gear remarkably quickly and the choice of 1st gear at the new bus stop is rather inevitable (the old layout was fine in second).

David Rose will probably have to go down this route as well, but for anyone with mechanical sympathy, it is noe the nicest solution.
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PostPost by: dunclentdr1 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:53 pm

Great video.

Thanks nmauduit for pointing out the first gear.

Frogelan - gosh that reads as if you are saying I have no mechanical sympathy! Just trying to rescue and run a beautiful Elan and work out the best diff and gearbox combination for hillclimbs - no offence taken!

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