Engine questions

PostPost by: s2lola » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:19 pm

All,

Interesting things coming to the surface re. restoration of my 1965 S2. The
engine, an LA block no less, is the original L block as per supplied
(numbers match, etc...). However, upon disassembly, we've found a really
nasty crack on the #2 main bearing boss (the crack starts in the bolt hole
and goes up either side of the boss).

Here are the questions:
- I don't think I want to try to fix the crack - seems a false economy to
me. But, has anyone had a positive experience trying to do this?
- There is evidence the engine had been apart previously (it is a true
40,000 mile car, I am the third owner and at one time knew the previous
owners). For example, the block has had its casting numbers ground off (!),
it uses 1500 rods with single wire spiro locks in the pins. The distributor
side of the block is still gray in colour, but the exhaust side is covered
in a red paint. Underhood, the fibreglass is not gray, but in green body
colour (actually, it's the original body colour, not the other green colour
the car was painted in 1972).

What gives, all you conspiracy theorists out there?

Thanks,
Bill Tebbutt


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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:29 am

Bill

I would not attempt to repair a crack in cast iron in a stressed area
such as around the main bearing cap bolt holes. It can be done but
very hard to get adequate strength and to limit residual stresses
after welding that could cause further cracking under applied loads.
A false economy compared to sourcing a replacement block

It was normal Lotus practice to grind off the casting numbers in the
early cars for some reason, I dont know why.

The 1500 rods were standard until introduction of the special Lotus /
Ford 125E rods. A wire "circlip" was standard on the original piston
wrist pins.

Sound pretty much like a standard early engine with a bit of paint
splashed around.

regards
Rohan


--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote:












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Pour cette raison, toute opinion exprimee au terme des presentes ne
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PostPost by: s2lola » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:37 pm

Thank you Rohan. Never knew the casting numbers were ground off at the
factory. Will be using a substitue block, once we find one.

Cheers,
Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Rohan Hodges [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/17 06:29
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions




Bill

I would not attempt to repair a crack in cast iron in a stressed area
such as around the main bearing cap bolt holes. It can be done but
very hard to get adequate strength and to limit residual stresses
after welding that could cause further cracking under applied loads.
A false economy compared to sourcing a replacement block

It was normal Lotus practice to grind off the casting numbers in the
early cars for some reason, I dont know why.

The 1500 rods were standard until introduction of the special Lotus /
Ford 125E rods. A wire "circlip" was standard on the original piston
wrist pins.

Sound pretty much like a standard early engine with a bit of paint
splashed around.

regards
Rohan


--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote:












*************

courriel en raison des risques d'interception inherents a l'Internet.
Pour cette raison, toute opinion exprimee au terme des presentes ne
reflete pas necessairement celle de Financiere Banque Nationale et de
NBCN.

*************



*************























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Financiere Banque Nationale et NBCN n'assument aucune responsabilite quant a la confidentialite et l'integrite du present courriel en raison des risques d'interception inherents a l'Internet. Pour cette raison, toute opinion exprimee au terme des presentes ne reflete pas necessairement celle de Financiere Banque Nationale et de NBCN.
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Due to the security risks involved in sending information over the Internet, National Bank Financial and NBCN can not be held
responsible for ensuring the confidentiality and integrity of the present e-mail. For this reason, the opinions expressed herein do not
necessarily reflect those of National Bank Financial and NBCN.
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PostPost by: ddddumas » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:16 pm

--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote: All, Interesting things coming to the surface re. restoration
of my 1965 S2..." (snip)

There is a complete Weber head TC engine, needing a rebuild at
auction on eBay right now.

Glad to hear that grinding block casting numbers off was routine, I
was taken aback when I saw this on mine.
ddddumas
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:20 pm

But, Bill, did you notice the stamped in numbers replacing those ground off. IIRC, 116 ground off, 120 stamped onto ground surface.

Roger



--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote: All, Interesting things coming to the surface re. restoration
of my 1965 S2..." (snip)

There is a complete Weber head TC engine, needing a rebuild at
auction on eBay right now.

Glad to hear that grinding block casting numbers off was routine, I
was taken aback when I saw this on mine.



























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PostPost by: s2lola » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:22 pm

Did not see that, Roger. Maybe it was all the red paint on that side of the
block that blinded me?

No matter, the darn thing is toast anyhow. Now what to do? Tall block
1700?

Cheers,
BT

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/17 14:20
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions



But, Bill, did you notice the stamped in numbers replacing those ground off.
IIRC, 116 ground off, 120 stamped onto ground surface.

Roger



--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote: All, Interesting things coming to the surface re. restoration
of my 1965 S2..." (snip)

There is a complete Weber head TC engine, needing a rebuild at
auction on eBay right now.

Glad to hear that grinding block casting numbers off was routine, I
was taken aback when I saw this on mine.



























**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
**********************************************************************





















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Financiere Banque Nationale et NBCN n'assument aucune responsabilite quant a la confidentialite et l'integrite du present courriel en raison des risques d'interception inherents a l'Internet. Pour cette raison, toute opinion exprimee au terme des presentes ne reflete pas necessairement celle de Financiere Banque Nationale et de NBCN.
***********************************************************************************
Due to the security risks involved in sending information over the Internet, National Bank Financial and NBCN can not be held
responsible for ensuring the confidentiality and integrity of the present e-mail. For this reason, the opinions expressed herein do not
necessarily reflect those of National Bank Financial and NBCN.
***********************************************************************************
s2lola
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:46 pm

Bill,
Two things to decide between:

1. Find a new block. Even a 1500 NCF block will work. You may have to sleeve it, if it won't accept the larger bore, but I think most will. After all,that's why your's was ground off, because it came outta the same mold.

2. Have the block fixed. I have a place in NY that's welded one of my pushrod heads, the one that's been on my FJr now for 3 years. Welded where they all crack, across the triangular water passages between 1 &2 and between 3 & 4. They preheat the iron casting and weld it hot. I was quite happy and it was about $200US. Contact me off liine if this is of interest to you. Then when it comes back, time to get steel caps and have it line bored/ honed to standard size. I have 2 105E blocks getting this done as we "speak".

Roger


Did not see that, Roger. Maybe it was all the red paint on that side of the
block that blinded me?

No matter, the darn thing is toast anyhow. Now what to do? Tall block
1700?

Cheers,
BT

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/17 14:20
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions



But, Bill, did you notice the stamped in numbers replacing those ground off.
IIRC, 116 ground off, 120 stamped onto ground surface.

Roger



--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote: All, Interesting things coming to the surface re. restoration
of my 1965 S2..." (snip)

There is a complete Weber head TC engine, needing a rebuild at
auction on eBay right now.

Glad to hear that grinding block casting numbers off was routine, I
was taken aback when I saw this on mine.



























**********************************************************************
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
**********************************************************************





















***********************************************************************************
Financiere Banque Nationale et NBCN n'assument aucune responsabilite quant a la confidentialite et l'integrite du present courriel en raison des risques d'interception inherents a l'Internet. Pour cette raison, toute opinion exprimee au terme des presentes ne reflete pas necessairement celle de Financiere Banque Nationale et de NBCN.
***********************************************************************************
Due to the security risks involved in sending information over the Internet, National Bank Financial and NBCN can not be held
responsible for ensuring the confidentiality and integrity of the present e-mail. For this reason, the opinions expressed herein do not
necessarily reflect those of National Bank Financial and NBCN.
***********************************************************************************












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PostPost by: tvacc » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:52 pm

Don't know if these are right blocks.but I have 2 complete 1600
Cortina/early pinto engines sitting here that I want to sell.I think these
are the tall blocks?

I am in Buffalo.NY



Tony V



_____

From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:47 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions



Bill,
Two things to decide between:

1. Find a new block. Even a 1500 NCF block will work. You may have to sleeve
it, if it won't accept the larger bore, but I think most will. After all,
that's why your's was ground off, because it came outta the same mold.

2. Have the block fixed. I have a place in NY that's welded one of my
pushrod heads, the one that's been on my FJr now for 3 years. Welded where
they all crack, across the triangular water passages between 1 &2 and
between 3 & 4. They preheat the iron casting and weld it hot. I was quite
happy and it was about $200US. Contact me off liine if this is of interest
to you. Then when it comes back, time to get steel caps and have it line
bored/ honed to standard size. I have 2 105E blocks getting this done as we
"speak".

Roger


Did not see that, Roger. Maybe it was all the red paint on that side of the
block that blinded me?

No matter, the darn thing is toast anyhow. Now what to do? Tall block
1700?

Cheers,
BT

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/17 14:20
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions



But, Bill, did you notice the stamped in numbers replacing those ground off.
IIRC, 116 ground off, 120 stamped onto ground surface.

Roger



--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote: All, Interesting things coming to the surface re. restoration
of my 1965 S2..." (snip)

There is a complete Weber head TC engine, needing a rebuild at
auction on eBay right now.

Glad to hear that grinding block casting numbers off was routine, I
was taken aback when I saw this on mine.
















Tony Vaccaro
LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York)
http://www.lotusowners.com
Drive Fast Take Chances
ElanGTS, 93 Caterham, 05 Elise,
99 Elise190, 05 Elise, 2005 MiataSpeed Turbo
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tvacc
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PostPost by: lotuselanman » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:31 am

Gidday Tony,
Re your blocks or engines. Have a look for casting numbers on the side oppersite to the starter.
You are looking for 711M, 701M, 691M. That will identify the vintage of theengine ex UK.
See ya, Les
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Vaccaro
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions


Don't know if these are right blocks.but I have 2 complete 1600
Cortina/early pinto engines sitting here that I want to sell.I think these
are the tall blocks?

I am in Buffalo.NY



Tony V



_____

From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 2:47 PM
To: ***@***.***
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions



Bill,
Two things to decide between:

1. Find a new block. Even a 1500 NCF block will work. You may have to sleeve
it, if it won't accept the larger bore, but I think most will. After all,
that's why your's was ground off, because it came outta the same mold.

2. Have the block fixed. I have a place in NY that's welded one of my
pushrod heads, the one that's been on my FJr now for 3 years. Welded where
they all crack, across the triangular water passages between 1 &2 and
between 3 & 4. They preheat the iron casting and weld it hot. I was quite
happy and it was about $200US. Contact me off liine if this is of interest
to you. Then when it comes back, time to get steel caps and have it line
bored/ honed to standard size. I have 2 105E blocks getting this done as we
"speak".

Roger


Did not see that, Roger. Maybe it was all the red paint on that side of the
block that blinded me?

No matter, the darn thing is toast anyhow. Now what to do? Tall block
1700?

Cheers,
BT

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Sieling [mailto:***@***.***
Sent: 2005/02/17 14:20
To: ***@***.***
Subject: [LotusElan.net] Re: Engine questions



But, Bill, did you notice the stamped in numbers replacing those ground off.
IIRC, 116 ground off, 120 stamped onto ground surface.

Roger



--- In ***@***.***, Bill Tebbutt <bill.tebbutt@n...>
wrote: All, Interesting things coming to the surface re. restoration
of my 1965 S2..." (snip)

There is a complete Weber head TC engine, needing a rebuild at
auction on eBay right now.

Glad to hear that grinding block casting numbers off was routine, I
was taken aback when I saw this on mine.



























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