Lotus Elan

starter motors

PostPost by: "petterhval" » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:11 pm

Hi.
Anyone out there who could explain the difference
between an inertia type and a pre-engaged type
starter motor?
Regards
Petter
"petterhval"
 

PostPost by: fjselan at aol.com » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:36 pm

the lucas starter does not work. Super starters do.
Finn
fjselan at aol.com
 

PostPost by: dougweall » Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:36 pm

Petter,

If you have been following Bob's thread about starter cables then I mentioned that I have a Brise starter bought from Burton Power.

It engages with the ring gear before spinning the engine over, hence no banging and crashing of the inertia type.
This one spins as you turn the key and then engages with the ring gear.

Doug

Message Received: Sep 03 2006, 09:11 PM
From: "petterhval" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Cc:
Subject: [LotusElan.net] starter motors

Hi.
Anyone out there who could explain the difference
between an inertia type and a pre-engaged type
starter motor?
Regards
Petter




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dougweall
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Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Darfield, S.Yorkshire

PostPost by: Rob_LaMoreaux » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:00 pm

Hi.
Anyone out there who could explain the difference
between an inertia type and a pre-engaged type
starter motor?
Regards
Petter


The inertia starter engages the gear on the starter by spinning the motor
and the inertia of the drive gear causes it to spin into the flywheel along
the path threaded on the motor shaft.

Pre-engaged starter motors have a winding that pulls in the gear to the
flywheel then closes contacts to start the motor turning.

Both work fine as long as everything is in good shape and the power and
grounds to the motor are good. The inertial starter can grind your flywheel
away if the threads on the shaft are mangled or dirty, or the voltage at the
motor is low so the motor starts at too slow an acceleration.

If the pre-engaged starter has a bad power feed it will pull in the gear
then do nothing except dim the lights or it will turn the motor very slowly.

Many people prefer the pre-engaged starter since most Elan's have poor power
feeds and it works better in this situation.

I have never had a problem with my Lucas starter, and if it ever does die I
would have to think hard before deciding whether the pre-engaged starter is
worth double.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending adventure.
Rob_LaMoreaux
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Posts: 369
Joined: 22 Sep 2003

PostPost by: "petterhval" » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:38 pm

Hi. Dough, Finn and Rob.
I replaced my starter with a rebuildt Lucas unit from P. Matty (£25.-) 2 years ago,
and it has never disappointed me. According to Burton`s parts catalog the 2
diferent types of starter motors require diferen types of ring gears ( engine out job )
so I`ll stay with the Lucas lump.
Regards
Petter

----- Original Message -----
From: rob_lamoreaux
To: ***@***.*** ; 'petterhval'
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] starter motors


>
> Hi.
> Anyone out there who could explain the difference
> between an inertia type and a pre-engaged type
> starter motor?
> Regards
> Petter
>

The inertia starter engages the gear on the starter by spinning the motor
and the inertia of the drive gear causes it to spin into the flywheel along
the path threaded on the motor shaft.

Pre-engaged starter motors have a winding that pulls in the gear to the
flywheel then closes contacts to start the motor turning.

Both work fine as long as everything is in good shape and the power and
grounds to the motor are good. The inertial starter can grind your flywheel
away if the threads on the shaft are mangled or dirty, or the voltage at the
motor is low so the motor starts at too slow an acceleration.

If the pre-engaged starter has a bad power feed it will pull in the gear
then do nothing except dim the lights or it will turn the motor very slowly.

Many people prefer the pre-engaged starter since most Elan's have poor power
feeds and it works better in this situation.

I have never had a problem with my Lucas starter, and if it ever does die I
would have to think hard before deciding whether the pre-engaged starter is
worth double.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending adventure.
"petterhval"
 

PostPost by: dougweall » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:38 pm

Hi Petter,
I am a bit surprised by what you say about the Burton parts catalog.
I ordered a Brise unit from them and nothing was ever mentioned about needing to
know what ring gear I had fitted.
I appreciate the Brise starter is a pricey item but in my opinion well worth the piece of mind,
now I have had a fair amount of use out of it.

Kind regards,

Doug.


Message Received: Sep 04 2006, 08:38 PM
From: "petterhval" <***@***.***>
To: ***@***.***
Cc:
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] starter motors

Hi. Dough, Finn and Rob.
I replaced my starter with a rebuildt Lucas unit from P. Matty (£25.-) 2 years ago,
and it has never disappointed me. According to Burton`s parts catalog the 2
diferent types of starter motors require diferen types of ring gears ( engine out job )
so I`ll stay with the Lucas lump.
Regards
Petter

----- Original Message -----
From: rob_lamoreaux
To: ***@***.*** ; 'petterhval'
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: [LotusElan.net] starter motors


>
> Hi.
> Anyone out there who could explain the difference
> between an inertia type and a pre-engaged type
> starter motor?
> Regards
> Petter
>

The inertia starter engages the gear on the starter by spinning the motor
and the inertia of the drive gear causes it to spin into the flywheel along
the path threaded on the motor shaft.

Pre-engaged starter motors have a winding that pulls in the gear to the
flywheel then closes contacts to start the motor turning.

Both work fine as long as everything is in good shape and the power and
grounds to the motor are good. The inertial starter can grind your flywheel
away if the threads on the shaft are mangled or dirty, or the voltage at the
motor is low so the motor starts at too slow an acceleration.

If the pre-engaged starter has a bad power feed it will pull in the gear
then do nothing except dim the lights or it will turn the motor very slowly.

Many people prefer the pre-engaged starter since most Elan's have poor power
feeds and it works better in this situation.

I have never had a problem with my Lucas starter, and if it ever does die I
would have to think hard before deciding whether the pre-engaged starter is
worth double.

Rob LaMoreaux
Ann Arbor, MI USA
(734)-971-5583
Cell (734)-604-9280
Email: ***@***.***
Too many Hobbies.... Too Little Time
1969 Lotus Elan....It's not a restoration, it's a never-ending adventure.









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dougweall
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Posts: 272
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Darfield, S.Yorkshire

PostPost by: "Martin Stuart" » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:10 pm

I had a Crossflow engined Westfield many years ago, that had a pre-engaged starter motor fitted when I bought it. The solenoid knocked against a chassis tube due to insufficient clearance, so I converted it to a pre-engaged type.

From my research at the time I discovered that the pinions mesh with the ring gear from different sides of the flywheel and the flywheel teeth are chamfered on the engagement side, to ease meshing. In the case of the Westfield (essentially similar block to the Lotus, of course), it was the same ring gear, but fitted the other way round. I had to remove the engine, cut off the ring gear and fit a new one, turned round so that the chamfer was on the other side.

Of course, it probably isn't as critical doing the conversion the other way round, since the pinion of a pre-engaged starter isn't spinning as it is thrown into mesh, but with the inertia type I was advised that the pinion would chew itself to bits pretty quickly if the chamfer on the ring gear wasn't there to help it.

Martin


----- Original Message -----
From: ***@***.***
To: ***@***.***
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [LotusElan.net] starter motors


Hi Petter,
I am a bit surprised by what you say about the Burton parts catalog.
I ordered a Brise unit from them and nothing was ever mentioned about needing to
know what ring gear I had fitted.
I appreciate the Brise starter is a pricey item but in my opinion well worth the piece of mind,
now I have had a fair amount of use out of it.

Kind regards,

Doug.

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PostPost by: dougweall » Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:34 pm

Martin,
Thanks for that it makes sense.
Doug.
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