Twink water pumps

[paul_adamson]

I have engaged Burton Power of the UK in a conversation regarding the replacement of the twin cam water pump (on an Elan) to help improve it life and serviceability. Here is there response...

<Water pump failures are a common problem on the twin cam engine and there is
no easy solution to the problem. However, we have remanufactured the
complete water pump/front cover assembly so that the water pump itself is a
removable module unit that can be easily remove to change the seals. Cost
of this is 397.33 inc vat.>

The price is in UKP and their email address is mailto:[email protected]

The specialise in tuning and performance mods to European Ford engines

Brian


---------------------o0o------------------
Brian Scally - Philips Semiconductors Systems Lab. Southampton UK
tel : +44 2380 312654 fax : +44 2380 316303
mailto:[email protected] seri : bscally@ukpsshp1

[paul_adamson]

Water pumps do fail on the twincam.
However - I would say that 400 for a non-original widget is a bit steep.

I would recommend not looking for a quick fix or trying to effect a repair
in situ.

Rather, accept your fate, employ a "Zen" attitude and get on with a proper
repair.

It is a mechanical fact of life that removing everything properly, cleaning
all the bits,
have a cup of tea etc results in a far superior repair.

However, just to contradict myself, I do like the look of the toothed belt
conversions (they probably cost 400 as well)

Paul Adamson
Lancashire
England

[jimfixit]

I've had my elan 15 years and have rebuilt the H2O pump twice but not
because they were failing. As a precautionary measure when ever I had the
head off. It's never failed me and have logged over 60 k miles since
rebuild.
jimbo
66 elan s3

[rodney]

At 07:53 PM 7/8/99 -0700, you wrote:

Jim

I have come to the conclusion that over tightening the fan belt is probably the
main contributor to pump failure. I had a number of pump failures in the early
days, but since applying the not to tight principle my last pump has lasted
many years (not a lot of miles though probably 20K or so).

What do you think.
Rodney Stevens
Home Phone: 61 2 42942428
Email: [email protected]

Work Phone: 61 2 97106701
Work Fax: 61 2 97106789
Email: [email protected]

Elan SS s/e 45/7616
http://sites.netscape.net/rodjohnstevens/homepage

[types26/36]

This topic comes up again and again and again....

Rodney has it right. Overtightening the fan belt is the main cause of early
water pump bearing failure. Close behind is not running the engine in many
years (usually seal failure). Under regular use and proper belt tension,
the pump seal and bearing should last 20 - 30 k miles, about the same as
valve guides.

Thus in my view there is no need for expensive aftermarket pump
conversions. The standard water pump is replaced as routine when the head
comes off for reconditioning (or vice versa). These two services must be
kept in synch!

Randall
Randall Fehr Restorations, Seattle


At 14:53 7/9/99 +1000, Rodney Stevens wrote:

[jimfixit]

That's been my experience. My belt is fairly loose.
I must admit that I have thought about a toothed belt conversion
jimbo
66 s3

----- Original Message -----
From: Randall Fehr <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 08, 1999 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [lotuselan] Twink water pumps

[Citromike]

With two Twink water pumps over 12 years of ownership, I have had one failure.

The failure was on my Europa, and I have no idea how tight the belt was
because I never looked. It had about 70,000 miles on the car, but about 5
years and a few thousand miles on a rebuild by the PO.

The Elan I have now did 30,000 miles in 24 years and the motor was toast (350
miles/quart)but the water pump wasn't leaking. So I left it in.

I keep the belt loose enough so it is just not slipping when charging. Make
sure the alternator/generator bolts are tight though.

Mike Roeder
[email protected]

Just kidding guys! I replaced it with a stock pump.

["David & Virgini]

Several people, including Randall Fehr have pointed out the problem of
overtight belts as cause of water pump failure. One of the efforts of
General Motors has been to make auto repair idiot proof. The flat
serpentine belt found on engines today must be part of that scheme. How
many generator/alternator/water pump failures have been caused by
overtightening V belts? How many times has it been reported that by a
Neanderthal tightening the belt with a crow bar behind the
generator/alternator, the screaming of the belt has been cured? Then in a
few months out goes the bearings from over tightening. Can't do that with
flat belt now used. A V belt was called the endless belt, because it needed
no end, the V groove of the pulley tightens the belt without any need for
something to stretch it out, it could be fed in under no tension and the
groove will catch the belt and provide adequate traction. They slip because
they are worn out and need replacement or carry too much load (especially
experienced with Jaguar engines). The only reason for any adjustment is to
keep belt from whipping itself to shreds. The toothed belt is idiot proof
also. It matters little how often this message goes out, especially on the
road when some idiot in a blue uniform says he'll fix it by tightening it,
he must be right, the squeal stopped. No matter what the instruction manual
or a knowledgeable person says.

[jimfixit]

On my mom's Saturn, They don't let you adjust the serpentine belt tension.
The idler pulley has a spring on it and that's it. You have to compress the
pulley back and slide the new belt on. No adjustment. Obviously designed
to keep mechanics from over tightening the belt.
jimbo
----- Original Message -----
From: David & Virginia Caley <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [lotuselan] Twink water pumps

[Jacques]

Hello,

Sorry for my English or American it is very elementary... )

If we do not tight the belt on our twin cam the belt may slip an the
alternator don't charge, but what about the water pump ? Is it working
enought ? does the water circulation is correct ?

The difficulty seems to be the just middle between overtighting and loose
belt ?

Am I true or not ?

Amicalement, from France...

Jacques

Elan S4/Se N?:9556
[email protected]

["David & Virgini]

If the belt and pulley match, it should not slip. Often a belt is worn and
needs replacing. If the pitch or angle of the V is not a perfect match to
the pulley, it will slip. There is more to specs for a belt than its
diameter. Mikes suggestion about the bracket bolts for the generator is
very important. The only reason for any adjustment of the belt is to keep
it from whipping and shredding itself. David

[Sking06]

Something else to consider in prolonging the life of the water pump might be
the pressure cap. High radiator pressure could force water past the seal and
into the bearing. I have always use a 7lb cap.

Skip King
'69 Elan S4SE FHC
'61 Seven S2 BMC

Measure it with a micrometer
Mark it with a grease pencil
Cut it with an ax

[Citromike]

Bonjour Jacques,

Adjust the belt and tighten the generator bolts.
Try to turn the water pump or generator pulley with your hand.
If you can turn the pulley, tighten the belt just a little more.
Then the water pump will be working fine.

Mike