Chassis

PostPost by: types26/36 » Sat Aug 28, 1999 12:13 am

Keep it original. That frame is the single most important innovation made
with the Elan, a stroke of engineering brilliance that Lotus used on all
subsequent models until....the Elise!

Randall
Randall Fehr Restorations


At 19:31 9/27/99 +0100, you wrote:

one to use for my rebuild. The Spyder seems to me to be the better
engineered chassis, whereas the Lotus chassis has the advantage of being
original. So, which is the best way to go?





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PostPost by: BrianMartley » Sat Aug 28, 1999 6:26 am

Dave,

Oh this thread could run and run !

Personally I have the pre-spaceframe Spyder chassis. I like it and the
Spyder chassis were proven to be have higher flex limits years ago, but it's
not fair to compare it with my previous rusted chassis on driving
impressions.

I picked Spyder because the finish & corrosion protection was better, plus
the noted increase in stiffness. Spyder had also strengthened all the points
where my Elan chassis had cracked - A-frame mounts, diff tie-rods, engine
mounts, etc. A close friend replaced his with the Lotus chassis and we did
have to weld up a crack near one of the engine mounts - but the car was a
daily driver and I think he'd racked up about 60K by then. Managed without
removing the body, but it didn't impress him too much.

It all depends what you're going to do with the car - if you're going to
sell one day then it's the lotus chassis. I'm not selling so I fitted what I
thought was the best technical solution at the time (1980-ish)

Brian

bet your mailbox is overflowing on this one ;-)






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PostPost by: Brian Walton » Sat Aug 28, 1999 4:30 pm

It all depends if you intend to sell the Elan at some stage. I read
somewhere that you should drive on the Spyder and sell on the Lotus
chassis. How deep are your pockets?





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PostPost by: abstamaria » Mon Aug 30, 1999 12:49 pm


I cannot agree more. Surely one of the most pleasurable moments in the
restoration of an Elan is when the frame has been cleaned and painted and
just sits there on stands. With over three restorations on my Type 45, I
have had an Elan frame just sitting in the library or in living room for
long periods while the other components were restored, and my wife has never
complained. A work of art truly. And what legends it inspired!
Supposedly, Chapman, amazed with the rigidity of the Elan chassis, wondered
if the central tub could be widened and Jimmy Clark inserted in an aperture
in it, and the Type 25 -- perhaps the loveliest F1 cars ever and the first
ever monocoque Lotus -- was born. If the Elan had a Spyder chassis, would
we still have tube-framed single-seaters?

If someone would make a 1/18 scale model of the Elan chassis in thin steel
or brass sheet, I would buy one for my desk. Wouldn't you?

I seriously considered a Spyder chassis too, but the appearance, weight, and
departure from principle always put me off. I'm sure it works well, but
....

If one were racing, then a "26R" style chassis might be the answer. Based
on the original Elan design, but gussetted, stiffened, and braced, it still
looks like what Chapman intended if more muscular -- a Lotus frame that's
been to the gym. And it is still "original." I had a 26R-style frame and
my original Elan frame sitting side-by-side some months ago. Even the small
additions on the 26R frame (almost invisible to the uninitiated) seemed to
detract from the elegance of the original design. That's the problem trying
to improve on perfection.

On a more serious note, over the weekend, inserting the engine with gearbox
into the chassis, I once again had to wrestle again with the dreaded "Lotus
lock." The engine/gearbox just would not go in. This is one of the
"design faults" cured by the Spyder chassis, and for a while there I almost
wished I had ordered one. But I successfully faced this problem twice
before, and so persevered. Finally I gave up, detached the gearbox, pushed
it into the tunnel, lowered the engine, mated the gearbox to the engine
while both were suspended in the frame, and then installed the mounts,
followed by the propshaft. Does anyone know of an easier way? Or like the
differential, do the engine/gearbox just slip in by some magic when all hope
is gone? But now the gearbox, engine, and prophasft are installed in my
rolling chassis, and all is well again.

Now I have only a few more weeks to savor that chassis -- painted a shiny
Lotus grey, of course, with "Lotus Components" stickers on the sides --
before the body goes on.

Regards to all.

Andres
Manila
45/8439







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PostPost by: types26/36 » Mon Aug 30, 1999 9:27 pm

At 20:49 8/30/99 +0800, A.B. Sta. Maria wrote:


I have installed engine/trans assemblies in several Elans and though there
is a clearance difficulty with the bellhousing and engine mount brackets,
enough jiggling and twisting and tilting and cussing will get it through.
Very helpful to have a tilt fixture on the hoist, and careful arrangement
of lifting chains/straps.

-Randall





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PostPost by: types26/36 » Tue Aug 31, 1999 2:03 am

At 20:49 8/30/99 +0800, A.B. Sta. Maria wrote:

Thanks Andres for broadening the historical perspective.

However, allow me to be pedantic for a moment. The type 14 Elite of 1957
was the first 'monocoque' Lotus. And the type 25 was not a single tube with
a hole for the driver, but rather Jimmy sat between two parallel D-shaped
tubes tied together at each end by bulkhead plates/hoops. So while the
engineering principle was monocoque ('single shell'), the adaptation and
its success was the brilliant part. The story goes that it dawned on
Chapman at lunch in a pub near the factory and he sketched it on a napkin.
Six months later it made its race debut and might have won but for a broken
clutch pedal bracket.

Back to the Elan chassis, what makes it work is that it is based on the
monocoque principle of a tube for low weight/high torsional rigidity (the
central backbone), and then the hard part - getting the suspension loads
distributed onto it such that the forks/crossmembers don't waste the low
weight/high rigidity.

-Randall





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PostPost by: stevep » Tue Aug 31, 1999 5:59 pm

A number of people mention the weight advantage of the standard Lotus Chassis over the Spyder one. Is there much weight advantage now that the Lotus one is galvanised, as it is sometimes supprising how much weight this adds. Just for the record I have a Spyder space frame on my +2 about the only job the P.O. didn't bodge! The extra features, like being able to unbolt the tubing beneath the engine makes it worth while. I can't understand how some people get so caught up in originality, sure I'd hate to see a Lotus with flames painted down the sides but as long as the mods are done well and the owners happy what's the problem? And you can now always unbolt the Spyder chassis and replace it with the Lotus one if your that bothered. At the time I suspect that the Spyder chassis was the only way to get the car back on the road, given Lotus's poor spares record in the early 80's. Steve (engine stripped for rebuild after the spark plug was blown out).





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PostPost by: rodbean » Tue Aug 31, 1999 11:40 pm

"A.B. Sta. Maria" wrote:


Andres,

Did you rotate the engine/gearbox assembly to clear various bits? It has to be
rotated quite a bit. Did you take the engine and gearbox out as a unit?

Rod







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PostPost by: abstamaria » Wed Sep 01, 1999 3:27 am

Many thanks for the information, Randall. It looks like you have been lucky
enough to examine a 25 close-up. I can't even find a good 1/18 model.

Best regards,

Andres
Manila










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PostPost by: peter at rolotec.ch » Wed Sep 01, 1999 6:13 am

----- Original Message -----
From: A.B. Sta. Maria <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [lotuselan] Chassis





Hi Andres

Back in 1986 there was a Japanese model of the Elan S3 in 1/24 scale that
came pretty close to the real thing. It featured a chassis made out of
(probably) laser-cut stainless steel that you had to ply into shape. Some
details were etched in to give a 3D effect. Wheels and most suspension parts
were in diecast zinc. The body shell and many odds and ends were in the
usual plastic. Mostly good detail quality. Lots of work to assemble, but
IMHO worth the effort. The manufacturer was:

Gunze Sangyo Inc.
Hobby Craft Dept.
3-17 Kanda Nichiki-cho
Chiyoda-ku, Kokyo
Japan

Maybe they have some of the kits left for your desk. HTH

Cheers
Peter






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PostPost by: rsfehr » Wed Sep 01, 1999 6:35 am

At 11:27 9/1/99 +0800, A.B. Sta. Maria wrote:


Yes, Andres. Looking closely, the monocoque tub is just about a foot deep
with no more than seven inches width for each of the riveted torsion boxes.
The outer skin of each box is 16 swg L72 Alclad aluminum alloy sheet with
18 swg used for the inner skin throughout the length of the cockpit and
also for the cockpit floor and the seat back. In the engine bay region the
inner skin was 20 swg steel while the boxes had to be halved in depth in
view of the cross-sectional shape of the V8 with its splayed cylinder banks
and external exhaust manifolding.

Too tired to describe it further for you.

I am lucky enough to examine close-up my copy of the superb LOTUS 25 CLIMAX
FWMV A TECHNICAL APPRAISAL by Ian Bamsey, Foulis 1990.

-Randall





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PostPost by: jcocking » Wed Sep 01, 1999 12:50 pm

This model was referred to as the high tech model. It occasionally comes up
for auction on Ebay.

jeff


From: "Peter Boegli" <[email protected]>

Back in 1986 there was a Japanese model of the Elan S3 in 1/24 scale that
came pretty close to the real thing. It featured a chassis made out of
(probably) laser-cut stainless steel that you had to ply into shape. Some
details were etched in to give a 3D effect. Wheels and most suspension parts
were in diecast zinc. The body shell and many odds and ends were in the
usual plastic. Mostly good detail quality. Lots of work to assemble, but
IMHO worth the effort. The manufacturer was:

Gunze Sangyo Inc.
Hobby Craft Dept.
3-17 Kanda Nichiki-cho
Chiyoda-ku, Kokyo
Japan

Maybe they have some of the kits left for your desk. HTH

Cheers
Peter




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PostPost by: abstamaria » Fri Sep 03, 1999 9:46 am

Hello Brian,

Congratulations on your works Type 36. Unfortunately, I have not examined a
26R chassis first hand, although I have been peering into the wheelarches of
26Rs at vintage events. My frame is from Tony Thompson Racing in the UK.
Tony advises that this is a close replica of the 26R frame, based on his
pukka 26R, which he has been racing for many years. Some time ago, someone
from the Lotus List was kind enough to mail pictures to me of his 26R frame.


The basis detail differences between TTR's 26R frame and the standard Lotus
frame are as follows:

1. The upper horizontal lips on the "Y" front section are reinforced
underneath by a welded sheet, forming a triangular boxed section. The
flange at the bottom of the frame underneath the differential and central
section benefits from the same treatment.
2. The top opening of the front damper turrets is blanked off, boxing in
the lower turret section (where mud accumulates in the original frame).
3. The upper damper mounts at the rear turrets are reinforced by
triangular plates at the front and rear.
4. The short "Y" section at the rear connecting the central tube to the
rear turrets is also reinforced.

I have a digital camera and can take pictures of these sections and email
them to you, if you think these will be useful. The pictures I received
before of the 26R frame seem too coincide with these features, so if your
frame has them too, you probably still have the real item.

If so, the problem is whether you can still salvage the frame, considering
the rust and the handiwork of previous owners. Certainly, the history of
the car seems to require an earnest effort at restoration. If replacement
is required, then you have the choice of getting a Lotus chassis, whether or
not galvanized, or a "26R" style chassis from a good source, perhaps Tony
Thompson. Others on the Elan List may be able to suggest other sources.
Considering the significance of your car, a Spyder chassis does not seem
appropriate, but others may disagree! (This is what makes the Elan List
interesting and useful.)

I have been hoping to visit New Zealand, which I hear is really lovely. Now
I have another reason to go.

Regards and good luck.

Andres
45/8439
Manila













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PostPost by: paul_adamson » Mon Sep 06, 1999 9:12 am

A freind of mine who has finally finished a 11 year restoration of his Elan
got a 'service exchange' chassi from Spyder. These appears to be a Elan
chassi that has been jigged and rebuilt. They used to sell them at
resonable cost. They have at least as much claim of originality as the
Lotus chassis in my opinion.

My freind insisted that they rebuilt his chassi to maintain the car's
originality. They were very understanding about the work and his aims and
colplied with his requests. This included having the chassi painted in
"original" type paint. They had to fit the work into their work schedule.

I'm sure that there are other spechalist chassi builders in the world (and
in NZ) whou could undrtake a chassi rebuild.

Brian
---------------------o0o------------------
Brian Scally
<snip lots of interesting chassi stuff>






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PostPost by: elancoupe » Tue Sep 07, 1999 1:33 am



I did, I did! Every time someone tells me that an Elan drophead is the only
one to have, I hand cuff them to a chair and force them to read it. ;) ;)
Not a bad recommendation from the man who designed the McLaren F1. A very
worthy read.

Mike B






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