Lotus Elan

1970 Sprint Garage find.

PostPost by: dougweall » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:14 am

Starting at the offside front turret and linking all the earth points back to the rear was the best bit of advice I received years ago from a very good electrician. I just ran it along with the rest of the system.

No problems with wiring for me 8 years on.

Doug.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:00 am

I did the same and built a earth system into the new wiring loom I made that picked up the various original earth locations. Its worked perfectly for 30 years. But you do need to keep your chassis earths in good condition also or run a cable the same size as the supply back from the starter to the battery. Otherwise you may fry the smaller wiring earth cables when you start the car :(

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PostPost by: Bud English » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:22 pm

Grizzly wrote:.... could do with a tidy way to clean under the grounds and only under the grounds if you know what i mean. I have been cleaning it up with 80 grit emery but its awkward to keep it local.


Here's what I found to work well:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aircraft-tools- ... 46198eaef4

and in the UK:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bonding-brush ... 3cdb8dcfbf

They're made to clean a round area under bonding (ground) points on aircraft. It might take a bit, but I think they would get down through powder coat. They make a nice clean tidy round patch as opposed to freehand sanding or grinding.
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PostPost by: pharriso » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:30 pm

So we spend hours/days applying the best rust proofing known (Por-15/Powder coat etc) & then buy a tool to remove it... :twisted:

Do you just apply a coating of vaseline or grease to stop corrosion in the area?
Phil Harrison
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PostPost by: Bud English » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:47 pm

You could do that or clear coat the area after ensuring the connection. Where I am one small shot of WD40 probably would keep it rust free forever. UK, Florida, Gulf Coast may need a little extra effort to keep rot at bay. :)
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:37 am

I have been putting Electrolube grease round the Earth points where i have taken the powder coat off, so hopefully that will help stop any moisture getting to the bare metal?


Just changing the subject slightly. I have been weighing up which direction i want to go with the drive shafts, i did originally plan to re-fit Rotorflex couplings (as i have 4 brand new ones) but the more i think about it the more i would like to put solid drive shafts on.

So i have done some reading up and am slightly worried that i have Koni rear Inserts and they will have too much Droop to run the shafts? i have read that the CV type are the best but this is an area i have no experience in, so i would appreciate any opinions and which type/make handles Droop best in the real world?
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:32 pm

Grizzy,
There have been loads of threads discussing the various types of alternative to Rotoflexes ever since this forum started- now far too many threads to make much sense of the subject?
If I could attempt to give an overview of what has been written:
Modern H&S regulations have resulted in Rotoflexes (and all other rubber components in the suspension and drive-train) being inferior to original spec, service life is MASSIVELY reduced, cost has MASSIVELY increased.

Spydersport produce a shaft with Rotoflex at one end and CV joint at the other; this means twice as much distortion of the remaining Rotoflex; not a good idea with modern rubber.
Tony Thompson produced sliding-spline shafts intended for racers with reduced suspension travel; these can be modified by grinding, or suspension droop can be limited; some of the methods used were designed by Heath Robinson but it can be done.
Mick (Susan) Miller (and others in the USA and Australia) produced CV shafts intended for road use, they work very well but require the heavy-duty diff mounts (top and bottom) to counteract the increased shock-loading due to removal of Rotoflex "sponginess". Tony Thompson is the best source for these in the UK. Susan had some quality-control problems and stopped supplying the shafts a while back- I'm not sure what the current position is, unfortunately.

If you trawl through the numerous threads it is noticeable that more than a few contributors adopt a rather defensive position on whatever type of shafts they currently have fitted to their cars; however, there is most definitely a trend for those who have changed from Rotoflexes to CVs to say that they would not go back. That is the camp I'm in.

Somewhere in this thread lotus-gearbox-f37/solid-driveshafts-they-improve-the-driving-experience-t16269.html you will find a photo I uploaded showing what happens to new standard Lotocones in a matter of months, if you go for CVs; with the TT indestructible part shown alongside.

If you want to come over to Wilmslow and stick your head under two Elans with Miller shafts, drop me a PM.

:twisted:
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:18 pm

elansprint71 wrote:Grizzy,
There have been loads of threads discussing the various types of alternative to Rotoflexes ever since this forum started- now far too many threads to make much sense of the subject?
If I could attempt to give an overview of what has been written:
Modern H&S regulations have resulted in Rotoflexes (and all other rubber components in the suspension and drive-train) being inferior to original spec, service life is MASSIVELY reduced, cost has MASSIVELY increased......


:twisted:


I believe the issue is not the H&S issue but rather that most of the components referred to are now made in small quantities with no quality control. Thus limited rubber quality and high cost. Modern mass produced rubber components are very superior to what the Elan had 40 years ago - eg tyres, hoses, belts, even wiper blades

As to the question about CV's accomodating the full suspension droop angle on the Elan. I believe Col Croucher at Elan Trikbits here in Australia is the only one whose units can do this with an otherwise standard rear suspension and drive train. The USA made ones that use a replacement diff shaft to eliminate the adapter plate and thus get a lesser deflection angle may also be OK in this respect. You really need to question any supplier direct about the issue


Limiting droop is not a problem if needed as the limit required does not affect the handling in anyway and is required in a similar amount to what occured originally with the donuts. You only need to stop the last 25mm approx of travel and at this point the spring load is very low so the loads on the tyre must be similarly low when the limiter comes into play. You can limit using a modified shock or via a cable or strap suitably located. Lotus Marques also talk about using their modified solid ball joint lotocone replacement which raises the shock mounting point.

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:56 pm

Thanks guys, yes after 6 hours of reading i was more confused than when i started. Forums are great for information but every one has different opinions and when there is a number of threads about a subject it gets a bit much, so i thought i'd ask and glad i did now. Cheers. Chris
Last edited by Grizzly on Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: collins_dan » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:33 pm

If the forum offered the opportunity to "like" a post. I would "like" Pete's post. I have the USA version and they have been on the car for at least 30 years at this point and no issues whatsoever. Dan
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PostPost by: nomad » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:55 am

Spitfire rotoflex coupler's are $30. Just mentioning that and they are probably made by the same company while Lotus couplers are $$$$$.
I don't doubt that limited demand has got all rotoflex's made by some small fly by night company, likely on the other side of the world now, that is making an inferior product. Unfortunately all of the rubber products I have had to buy for Brit cars recently are poor quality.
If the price was better there would be less of an incentive to swap them out.

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PostPost by: Grizzly » Mon May 19, 2014 5:19 pm

Just thought i'd update, I've not had chance to do allot on the car as i've not been well but as the suns been out i thought i'd crack on :)

I sort of hit a wall because i was going to get all the paint work done before the Chassis went under it but i was having real issues moving the body about and i moved it outside to power wash it off and couldn't get it back in :(

So... Sun is out i got the Bay, arches and floor painted and got it to this stage :)

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

And now it rolls nicely :) as long as it stays nice weather i should have it running very shortly but i'm having some real issues finding parts for the Girling Brake servo so my Brakes may not be great :(

But it looks a bit like a car again which has given my enthusiasm a boost :D May not look much but this is a good day :D
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PostPost by: collins_dan » Mon May 19, 2014 6:04 pm

I have no servo on my S4 and it stops just fine. I don't think federal S4s and Sprints came with servos. Just a thought. Dan
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Mon May 19, 2014 6:42 pm

This is one of the Uk S4 converted to Sprint cars, the first thing i did was weigh up if it was supposed to have a servo but i have the advantage of being able to chat to the Previous owner who had the car from new, it turns out the Servo had never been off the car prior to it coming off the road (He also said i wasn't working) he also remembers that when the kit arrived in the 1970's the Servo to Chassis Brake pipe was missing (that's why it stuck in his head)

The annoying thing is i had the Servo re-sleeved,Beadblasted and the Vacuum chamber epoxy powder coated only to find i had two bits missing i can't seem to get hold of anywhere :roll: the previous owner stripped every thing so meticulously that it didn't cross my mind that bits had been lost / missing.

Ahh well, just keep my eyes open for a 5/8 Girling Servo i can use for spares.
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Wed May 21, 2014 11:09 pm

Grizzly,
There are also loads of opinions on servos back in the archives (again possibly too much to take on board!); my personal opinion- chuck out the servo... non-SE cars managed without; both my 68S4SE and 72 Sprint lived perfectly well without the extra weight and pedal feel was improved. I fitted +2 brakes to the Sprint- again lots of stuff in the archives.

If you are ever stuck for workforce in Cheshire- call out the CLOGs
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/che ... group/info

Come along to one of our meetings, first Sunday of the month (not July, we'll be at Le Mans Classic) at The Whipping Stocks, twixt Knutsford and Holmes Chapel, from 1330, or give me a ring on 07702528485.

Cheers,
Pete.
Last edited by elansprint71 on Thu May 22, 2014 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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