Lotus Elan

Sprint buying guide / advices

PostPost by: Grizzly » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:08 pm

As for the engine powered radiator fan.

I believe you should only find them on much earlier Elans (i'm sure some one more clued up will say which ones but i thought it was a S1 / S2 thing), my experience of the engine driven fan is it add's load to the already slightly sketchy auxiliary belt. What happens is the knock on effect of the drag of the fan makes the belt slip meaning you have to over tighten to make it all work correctly....... Over tightening the Auxiliary belt on a Twincam is a big NO!! as it reduces the life of the water pump bearings. This is why i'd be looking very closely at the water pump too for any weeping (another very common issue)

Again a bit odd the otter switch is there but some one has removed the electric fan.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:18 pm

Just dirt on the floor, 2 seaters don't have outriggers.

Looking at that picture it looks like the exhaust Y pipe is upside down, it has an angle to the outlet pipe so it point's back towards the floor, if it's upside down you have to correct it by turning the mid pipe much lower than it should be massively reducing the ground clearance. Not a major job but it's a bit of a theme going on.
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:47 pm

It is possible that this is an original 5 speed - it may be worth checking vin number.

Oil pressures look fine.

With regard to brake servo it is in front of radiator on left side.

Non "failsafe' cars use the cross member to store enough vacuum to empty both actuators quickly to raise the lights.
Looking at the drawing failsafe didn't use cross member?
If there's a brake servo then as Grizzly says a tee piece will be needed to service both functions.

If I remember correctly there is normally a one way valve to maintain brake vacuum should a leak occur elsewhere.

Engine doesn't overheat in temperate climes (northern europe) but can be marginal elsewhere.
There should be a blanking plate under the radiator and a 50mm wide strip of foam attached to the bonnet to restrict airflow over the radiator.

I take the point about potential belt slip when driving a fan but ive never noticed it and my belt isn't super tight.
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:50 pm

Your quite right.
elan-headlamp-vac-system-wm.jpg and


As for the fan, i try to run my auxiliary belt as loose as i can without being able to turn the pulley inside it. The water pump is surprisingly delicate considering how much of a pain it is to change.
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PostPost by: patrics » Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:25 pm

Hi,
Looking and the underneath shot showing the cill area I would expect the steel side supports to need attention - the fibre glass obviously needs repair.

Regards
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:38 pm

Is the diagram definitive about the piping or is failsafe system only shown where it differs from the original?
Either way the vacuum to brake is not shown. My Sprint has a tee piece on the manifold to serve the lights and brake servo separately, originally I think there was only one check valve (brass as shown) but ive put in a second one.
Maybe this car doesn't have a servo - quite a few people did dump them rather than repair.
I now bitterly regret throwing away my original when it needed repair and installing one off a scrapped escort - at the time with nobody keen to rebuild and only a few quid to replace it seemed obvious. Little did we know what people will pay for original girling servoes in 40 years time!
I've since had that escort servo rebuilt and it passes muster as not obviously wrong :D

Steve - Are you worried about the internal lattice support? It can rust and as you point out the glass fibre isn't watertight.
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PostPost by: Gray » Fri Jul 19, 2019 7:35 am

Dynamo regulator appears to be in the wrong place, where the 'chassis' (unit) plate should be. Not a car I would be tempted by unless it was appropriately priced and the purchaser understood the amount of work required.
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PostPost by: Giniw » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:38 pm

lotusfan wrote:
Also, there is what looks like an additional lock next to the rear light cluster ... Any idea what it could be? I highly suspect it's not standard at all!


The battery is on that side of the boot, that lock may be some sort of battery cut off switch? It is certainly not standard.
I will ask since it's not standard, but you might be right indeed ... Still, I wouldn't have made a hole to install that personally!







Grizzly wrote:Exactly!! The pipe that you see I've pointed too in red appears to be the headlight vacuum line that should have a T in it, the fact some one has bypassed the reservoir is what had alarm bells going off for me. If corrosion has perforated the lower parts of the chassis uprights (very common) the cross member won't hold vacuum and the headlights won't pop up.

Also bypassing the tank will make the headlights very lazy.
Thank you very much, I wasn't sure the pipe was that one. Indeed that is more than suspicious.
The seller tells it's still the original chassis ... When the front cross member is leaking, does that generally imply the chassis is a goner and should be replaced or is it just generally a little patch to do in a restricted area? Are there particular places to inspect on the chassis?





Grizzly wrote:As for the engine powered radiator fan.
I believe you should only find them on much earlier Elans (i'm sure some one more clued up will say which ones but i thought it was a S1 / S2 thing),
[...]
Again a bit odd the otter switch is there but some one has removed the electric fan.
I will have to ask about that front electric fan. I had a look at a few photos and I suspect you could be right indeed about the engine powered fan deletion on later cars.

Grizzly wrote:This is why i'd be looking very closely at the water pump too for any weeping (another very common issue)
Thanks!





Grizzly wrote:Looking at that picture it looks like the exhaust Y pipe is upside down, it has an angle to the outlet pipe so it point's back towards the floor, if it's upside down you have to correct it by turning the mid pipe much lower than it should be massively reducing the ground clearance. Not a major job but it's a bit of a theme going on.
Thanks for the tip! This kind of stuff is not that easy to spot when you own the car and it has been put backwards forever ... ;)








MarkDa wrote:Oil pressures look fine.
Thanks!
Engine doesn't overheat in temperate climes (northern europe) but can be marginal elsewhere.
There should be a blanking plate under the radiator and a 50mm wide strip of foam attached to the bonnet to restrict airflow over the radiator.
Thanks!








Grizzly wrote:Just dirt on the floor, 2 seaters don't have outriggers.

patrics wrote:Hi,
Looking and the underneath shot showing the cill area I would expect the steel side supports to need attention - the fibre glass obviously needs repair.

Steve - Are you worried about the internal lattice support? It can rust and as you point out the glass fibre isn't watertight.

So, what exactly are these side supports? Some bits near the A pillars?
What do you mean about the glass fibre being not watertight?! Do you refer about this particular LHS floor needing a repair?






MarkDa wrote:Non "failsafe' cars use the cross member to store enough vacuum to empty both actuators quickly to raise the lights.
Looking at the drawing failsafe didn't use cross member?

MarkDa wrote:Is the diagram definitive about the piping or is failsafe system only shown where it differs from the original?

Actually the early non-failsafe version is pictured withouth a reference to the front cross member either in the workshop manual, so I gather they just didn't bother to draw it.





Either way the vacuum to brake is not shown. My Sprint has a tee piece on the manifold to serve the lights and brake servo separately, originally I think there was only one check valve (brass as shown) but ive put in a second one.
Maybe this car doesn't have a servo - quite a few people did dump them rather than repair.

If there's a brake servo then as Grizzly says a tee piece will be needed to service both functions.

If I remember correctly there is normally a one way valve to maintain brake vacuum should a leak occur elsewhere.
Apparently the OEM brake servo is supposed to be replaced every three years if I remember correctly ... Does it really have such a short life span?!





Gray wrote:Dynamo regulator appears to be in the wrong place, where the 'chassis' (unit) plate should be. Not a car I would be tempted by unless it was appropriately priced and the purchaser understood the amount of work required.
Thanks!
Well I checked a few photos on the Internet, and apparently LHD cars have a different engine compartment layout, and the voltage regulator would be where it belongs on a LHD car.
A confirmation from someone more knowledgeable than me would be interesting, though! (I haven't found a drawing of the engine compartment in the workshop manual, but maybe I haven't searched enough!)

LHD (mostly FED)
https://img.pistonheads.com/LargeSize/l ... 6777-2.jpg
http://lionheartsolutions.com/sprint026 ... 2017-2.JPG
http://lionheartsolutions.com/sprint026 ... ay2017.JPG
http://www.europeanmotorstudio.com/wp-c ... C_0161.JPG

RHD
https://www.seanet.com/~rsfehr/ELAN19.jpg
http://images.lotuselan.net/lel/13856/0 ... 20bay1.jpg
https://racecarsdirect.com/content/User ... 85.jpg?v=0
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1442/258 ... 209d_b.jpg
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:07 pm

Just for info, my 1967 Elan S3 Coupe originally came with a fan blade on the water pulley, I had overheating problems and so took it off & fitted a Kenlowe electric fan.
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PostPost by: Giniw » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:11 pm

Thank you very much!
Was it and "old school" fan? Apparently a modern fan with more ... err... wings(?) makes a real difference (I know someone who has installed a more modern fan on another classic car and he told me it's much better)
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:11 pm

The lattice mentioned above, braces the side walls & door aperture of the Elans. Its a welded frame (sort of zig-zag of narrow steel tubes) built into the fibre-glass on both sides & covered by the interior side panels.
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:13 pm

Giniw wrote:Thank you very much!
Was it and "old school" fan? Apparently a modern fan with more ... err... wings(?) makes a real difference (I know someone who has installed a more modern fan on another classic car and he told me it's much better)


My mechanical fan was a simple piece of sheet steel, shaped and with each end portion twisted to catch the air.
I think it was like ONE blade of the two shown in this diagram, though its possible it may have originally been two such blades. More lethal to fingers than a modern multiblade plastic one.

Image
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PostPost by: patrics » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:26 pm

Hi Giniw

Regarding the side lattice work.
On both sides of the Elan there is a steel frame work which runs from front foot well and down the rear wing - this is bonded in and a massive job to replace - I had to do it on mine.
In the picture the join between floor moulding and side moulding is split and this is where the frame work is bonding and obviously when it rusts it expands and splits the joint.

Regards
Steve
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PostPost by: Giniw » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:07 pm

Thank you Everyone, again!

patrics wrote:Hi Giniw

Regarding the side lattice work.
On both sides of the Elan there is a steel frame work which runs from front foot well and down the rear wing - this is bonded in and a massive job to replace - I had to do it on mine.
In the picture the join between floor moulding and side moulding is split and this is where the frame work is bonding and obviously when it rusts it expands and splits the joint.

Regards
Steve


Well thank you very much!
I found this picture in the WM:
Image

As I understand it, this would explain what could be a crack (circled in green) but not really the part I circled in red?! (which I understand is only GRP — so maybe just some grime?)
Image

As for the frame repair job, I found a few threads or URLs on that topic (I am quoting for future reference ^^):
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=34731&start=
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=15161&start=
https://lotuselan.wordpress.com/restoration-phase-iii/
What is the worst doing that repair? Is the access to the frames really difficult? Are the trimming parts really hard to remove? Or is it only the two seats and carpets to remove? (then unglue the frame, restore it and glue again)
I read it's supposed to be galvanized on later cars, isn't it? Strange it has rusted on that late Sprint ... (viewtopic.php?t=15161&f=36&start=0#p73505)
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PostPost by: Giniw » Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:27 pm

Giniw wrote:As for the frame repair job, I found a few threads or URLs on that topic (I am quoting for future reference ^^):
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=34731&start=

This one is particularly interesting, with plenty of photos and explanations.
So it appears the frame extends over the rear wheel arch and sometimes can even damage the outside of the bodyshell ...
It can be seen nicely here: https://youtu.be/4PnD7j1a8EQ?t=121
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