Lotus Elan

Zetec question....old chestnut....purists look away!

PostPost by: berni29 » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:00 pm

To the Zetec fraternity......

I cannot remember if anyone has managed to get a Zetec engine into a standard Spyder chassis while retaining the original 4sp box. So basically just the engine swap. As to why anyone should want to do such a thing, well, that is a different matter. Half of me hopes that it is possible, the other half not!

Berni
Racing green +2s with green tints. See it at:

www.searchsmart.co.uk/lotus
User avatar
berni29
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Location: Beckenham Kent

PostPost by: simon.mitchell » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:15 pm

Bernie,

IIRC one of the the main differences between a 'standard' Spyder chassis and a Zetec one is that the vacuum tank needs a half moon shaped cut out on the top to clear the Zetec crank pulley and maybe the engine mounts are slightly different. Shouldn't be too difficult if you have a welder, or Spyder will modify it for you if you're feeling flush - in which case they'll also make room for the MT75 gearbox (the original will still fit if you don't want the MT75).

All from memory, but if you give Andy a call at Spyder he'll give you the latest.

Are you still planning to keep the existing driveline & running gear? What about fuel injection? Sounds like a great project to me - keep us informed on progress.

Cheers,

Simon
User avatar
simon.mitchell
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 148
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Aylesbury, Bucks

PostPost by: twincamman » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:43 am

sounds like a better deal than screwing around with old twincams and unobtainable and stupidly expensive parts :roll: ed
User avatar
twincamman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2953
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Location: Niagara falls [slowly I turned]

PostPost by: lotusanglia1965 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:15 am

HI Berni!
Have you considered the smaller,lighter zetec-s engine? I'm in the process of fitting one to a standard(non zetec) spyder chassis.It's 1600cc, with similar torque and power to twin cam,so won't upset rest of driveline. also very cheap to buy,reliable,lighter (all alloy) and you don't have to cut chassis about -just.
Martin
"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy"
Monty Python's The Life Of Brian,best film ever.
lotusanglia1965
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 114
Joined: 19 Jul 2004
Location: North Essex,UK

PostPost by: berni29 » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:34 am

Hi Martin

I have a new (old but unused) 1800cc Zetec engine already, but that in no way puts me off your suggestion! Have you actually got the engine mated up to the box and in? I guess that doing it with the body on would be tough. I have a Lotus galvanised chassis with spare running gear that I could make up to go under my green car with the orig Lotus engine(when back together) and then use the Spyder one from the green car to do what you suggest. I will PM you for your phone number if you do not mind!

Berni
Racing green +2s with green tints. See it at:

www.searchsmart.co.uk/lotus
User avatar
berni29
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Location: Beckenham Kent

PostPost by: wilsongt » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:03 am

Which leads on to another obvious question. Who knows of a physically smaller twin cam engine + gearbox combination that will fit in the standard spyder spaceframe? Duratec? Honda? Toyota?

Regards,
Glenn

PS Wasn't there something in the forums about how a Zetec will fit into a standard Spyder spaceframe, or a folded steel chassis even, but only if you select/make the right flywheel, so the engine can sit back in the twink position, rather than a few inches forward a la Spyder Zetec? A solution suggested from down under I think?
wilsongt
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 16
Joined: 19 Sep 2003

PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:38 am

Hi Berni,
I have actually done the stated conversion. The only necessary Spyder chassis change has been mentioned (half mooon cut out in vacuum tank).
Mating to standard 4 speed g/box: Suitable flywheel with starter ring to suit pre-engage starter, Pre engage starter. Extended clutch release bearing carrier. Clutch plate to suit g/box splines. Original closing plate between g/box & engine fits but leaves a few gaps. The engine dowels will need to be reduced in diameter for half their length to fit the g/box (MM/inch). Bolts between engine & g/box becomes a mixture of metric & inch.
Cut & patch plenum chamber (bulkhead) out to suit original Zetec themostat housing (don't fall for that special coolant rail solution). I modified the sump & oil pick-up pipe (depends on what sump you use). The Spyder/Zetec engine mounts work.
There are other mods needed, but I think your initial question has been answered.
John
Beware of the Illuminati


Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
User avatar
GrUmPyBoDgEr
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3151
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Location: Burnham-on-Mud

PostPost by: berni29 » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:43 am

Hi

Woops, posted this 5 minutes after John gave his answer, but before I saw it! John, I have PM'd you!

I think that Martin with his Zetec-S 1600 is probably nearest the mark, but it is realatively uncharted territory. Although I am told differently by people who do know, I still think that a Zetec engine will go into a standard Spyder chassis. The front pulley sits low and will foul the front crossmember, but that could be dished as mentioned above, or a different pulley (of some unknown type) might get around the problem. I do not know about the engine mounts. I will have to look into that. I am intending to buy a proper Zetec chassis, but a delay in selling some bits, and my own +2 engine having to come apart for work has put and end to that for the moment. So in the meantime my mind is wandering!

Berni
Racing green +2s with green tints. See it at:

www.searchsmart.co.uk/lotus
User avatar
berni29
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Location: Beckenham Kent

PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:13 am

Bernie,
if & when, ensure you get a chassis to the specification you need from Spyder.
If you intend to retain the original gearbox and back axle set up, all you will need is a chassis with the cut out in the vacuum reservoir. Oval tubing where the MT 75 G/box needs the extra space would also be a good bet (if it's not yet standard for Spyder, just in case!). The full Zetec chassis from Spyder provides location for the Sierra differential, rear brakes etc. and I don't know if you would be able to fit the Elan diff' into it.
Did you get my e-mail with the photo's?
John
Beware of the Illuminati


Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
User avatar
GrUmPyBoDgEr
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3151
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Location: Burnham-on-Mud

PostPost by: berni29 » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:56 am

Hi John

Yes I did thank you very much. Looks very professional! I have only just had the chance to sit down at my computer, so apologies for not having replied. Dunnell now do a smaller lower pulley, so it might be that the cut out can be reduced in size or omitted. I do hope so! They were saying that there is no way to avoid buying an aftermarket sump (baffles the wrong way etc), but Spyder said that one from a 1800cc Zetec Escort will fit. I am not sure if it has a flat bottom or not (never seen one) but the one I have at the moment (Mondeo) is slanted and clearly meant for a transverse canted over installation.

I am going to get an engine hoist and start work soon!

Thanks again

Berni
Racing green +2s with green tints. See it at:

www.searchsmart.co.uk/lotus
User avatar
berni29
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 387
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Location: Beckenham Kent

PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:33 pm

I believe that the Escort sump has a flat bottom & would tend to believe Spyder. (Don't forget the suction pipe as well & watch out for enough space for that nice fat exhaust manifold, it should go 4 into 1 around where the back end of the sump is). I had my Mondeo sump modified for the cost of a few beers, very cheap!. Put some nice baffles in it & some side cheeks on it to increase capacity because I'd cut the bottom off to be above the lowest point on the crossmember (ground clearance).
Good luck with the project.
John
Beware of the Illuminati


Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
User avatar
GrUmPyBoDgEr
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3151
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Location: Burnham-on-Mud

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests