Lotus Elan

Has Anyone Done An AR, NR Caliper Or Other Brake Conversion?

PostPost by: cabc26b » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:20 am

Bill,

You can get the D14R's from Dave Bean (part number is on the caliper ) As far as I know the alloy versions of the stock rears are NLA .

George
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PostPost by: davidholroyd » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Hi,

I have a brand new pair of' classicar ' rebuilt front M16 calipers + discs + brackets + 1155 Mintex racing pads ..

will bolt straight on to your baby elan ... the way to go and what I used for 12 years of very quick tarmac rallying.

one race only ..... Have had to fit AP's at vast expense to convert car from CSCC swinging sizties to FIA 'K' this year - offers as the M16 has a larger pad area than the AP1
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PostPost by: bill308 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:22 pm

davidholroyd,

Are the M16 calipers you reference the same as Lotus +2 or Triumph GT6 calipers?

Are the calipers iron or aluminum alloy?

cabc26b,

I spoke with Tommy Smith of DBE last week and he said they are awaiting a new shipment of the D14's or maybe they were going to place and order for them? It wasn't really clear in my mind. I wounder if they can be machined for a slightly larger bore piston?

Bill
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PostPost by: gav » Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:35 pm

I am not bound by period regs and changed my front brakes to Caterham 4 pot calipers. I used their matching vented disc and their pads. Astounding improvement and it fitted with no mods.
I started with a single circuit servo, then decided to split the circuits front and rear and I got hold of a twin circuit servo and a twin circuit master and that was no better in performance terms but more reassuring because of the split circuits.
Then I rescued the car from rolling down a hill with the handbrake on tight and bit the bullet - I fitted Spyder's double wishbone suspension system and had the uprights modified by Spyder to accept the Sierra rear caliper.
I need to change the top bush to a rose joint so that I can set up the rear better but the handbrake is spectacular and the braking capacity of the car is awsome.
I think the pads I am using are Ferrodo 2500 (got them from Anthony at Techcraft - they weren't cheap but they dont need to warm up and dont fade) I use them for road and sprints - cant comment on racing. They are what Anthony recommended and are great.
I had to change the master cylinder and decided to remove the servo - much better feel and control but does require a heavier foot in emergencies (and for very late braking)
I am very happy with the set up now and only need to modify the umbrella to complete the hand brake set up - Im using Spyders modified spaceframe chassis (they will do them for the sprint) which allows for the handbrake on the tunnel (and a Zetec - but Im running a twin cam into a 5 speed MT75 thence into a 7" Sierra diff) but I find it cramped.
More food for thought

Good luck
Gavin
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:57 am

Hi,
You can buy ally mounting plates for front uprights to take AR's from lee chapman racing.

I've just been down expensive path of buying STD NR calipers for rear of my Elan, contrary to advice here, the spacing of bolts is wider than Elan rear upright centers so you have to order specially cast band drilled sets from DBE or CF who I think supplies DBE.

Note for the Elan the modified NR leaves in my case with new TTR mag uprights the caliper a little to far out for 26R S2 which has special rear castings and smaller diameter rear disks. Leaving pads a little to far away from hub centre line.

I expect they'd be fine for STD rear disks on road Elan. As I understand S1 26r had standard size rear disks, this seems to be supported by photos of cars in period. Most would have been updated to 26R S2 spec along the way.

My experience is good pads lots around now, correct master cylinder piston diameter and if used on track rear bias valve, notbrequired for 26RS2 as it has balance bar and dual MC'S
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PostPost by: Mark B » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:43 pm

Just a quick note on the wilwoods, not all of them have no dust seals, although the ones with dust seals will probably only fit under 14 " wheels (I have the midilites under 14 " spyder minilite wheels).
To be honest though I don't think you'll have a problem, I ran wilwood powerlite calipers (no dust seals) on my westfield for 5+ years without problem & so have 20+ friends. Most elan owners are probably like westfield owners and see no problem popping out the pads once a year (quick release anyway) and giving a clean around the pistons.

If you want a run down on most of the range, aswell as the best price for them visit rally design http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/index.php?cPath=562 they can make up brake lines to any configuration, one off brackets etc so you can fit them to virtually any car. As for Andy Taylor if you're interested, he gives very good advice on the subject.

I think John has the powerlites, they are less than a kilo per caliper, making them the lightest in their class I believe, you can buy Ferodo Ds2500 pads (one of my favourites), Mintex M1144 aswell as the range of Wilwoods own pads (avoid the smart pad, Poly E and Poly A are brilliant but squeal at low speed). When bleeding, the lower bleed nipples stay shut, and the top two should be bleed together.

I do the same as Rohan & run a really good pad in the front and a standard pad in the rear to balance things up -the westfield had the same issue with overbraking at the rear.

HTH,
Mark.
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PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:10 am

rgh0 wrote:On an Elan with modern tyres of good grip levels you have to much rear braking due to the levels of weight transfer to the front that can be achieved before the fronts loose grip and lock. The result is premature rear lock up making control hard.

The easiest way to rebalance the brakes is to use a modern high coefficent road pad such as the DS2500 which I have used with good success at the front and a "standard' lower coefficent rear pad.

The high coefficent front pad will also give good brake pedal effort levels without boosters or changing to larger calipers.

"Pedal load" are not the only brake performance parameter -- "initial bite" and "brake level modulation" are also important considerations and the right system performance addresses all these issues. The DS 2500 perform well on these 2 parameters also. While their cost is high their life is good and they do not generate the same level of corrosive dust as the EBC greenstuff do which are much cheaper and perform similarly but do not last as long and their dust casues corrosion in my experience.

"High temperature fade" is not normally an issue in terms of brake performance in an Elan except in heavy full race use on a demanding track if you use a odern high performance road pad such as the DS2500.

regards
Rohan



Hi Rohan, do you have a recommendation for a high co-efficient pad for the AR calipers in my little car as I am looking for pads that will work without needing heat in them for the Historic Parade at the Grand Prix in a few weeks.

Cheers James
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PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:08 am

To that end, are there any/many production road cars that run AR calipers as standard oem??
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PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:32 am

I’m thinking Mintex MGB504 - M1144
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PostPost by: gav » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:57 am

As the post has come back to life I thought Id update on my current set up after my post a few years ago -

I did a few sprints in the UK and found that the back span under heavy braking with too much back brake so ended up fitting a brake limiting lever (AP Racing) which I tested after the MOT for the best settings. This worked a treat but the front master cylinder (0.625) still feels rather wooden with my set up so I am going to drop down to 14mm master to restore the feel. This should allow me to add some more pressure to the rear at the same time.

I have an MOT booked in three weeks time. One done I'm going to whip out the engine and box to have the box serviced and do an engine change so I'll change the master then.

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PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:23 am

I spoke to Elwyn Bickley and Jamie Larner - as a result it's out with the DS11s , bypassing the Ferodo "R" compound and the guys at Competition Friction are cutting me 2 sets of "C" compound and Tony Dunn's bringing down from Sydney on Thursday. Sorted!
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:04 am

SJ Lambert wrote:I spoke to Elwyn Bickley and Jamie Larner - as a result it's out with the DS11s , bypassing the Ferodo "R" compound and the guys at Competition Friction are cutting me 2 sets of "C" compound and Tony Dunn's bringing down from Sydney on Thursday. Sorted!


Sounds like you have been talking to the right guys to sort out what you need for the GP parade

cheers
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:08 pm

SJ Lambert wrote:To that end, are there any/many production road cars that run AR calipers as standard oem??


Series 1 Elites have AR calipers at the front and NR at the rear as standard fitment.
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PostPost by: patrics » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Hi

To that end, are there any/many production road cars that run AR calipers as standard oem??


AR callipers are an old race caliper for very light weight cars - it is not suitable for anything else.

Regards
Steve
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PostPost by: Davidb » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:18 pm

This is as good a place as any to put this I hope:
http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/Caliper ... ame=WLD-20

They are very light, look right and are $200 each-they only have 1.75" pistons however--are they of any use to us?
3.5" mounting centres.
'65 S2 4844
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