Spyder +2 zetec owners on elan.net?

[prezoom]

There have been several Plus2's built with 2000E transmissions/English axle differentials, and I have not read of any having problems with transmission differential failures. My S2 provides plenty of spirited driving time, and my thoughts on this conversion were that the car would be used as a "country plodder", in keeping with my wife's desire not to be exposed to panic bar grabbing driving.

When compared to full boat built racing engines, a 2 liter Zetec with nothing more than a pair of 40mm Webers and a semi well designed exhaust, with nothing more than port matching, would bring the engine to something less than a well prepared competition car. Most current day competition cars are equipped with tires that provide far more grip than the 165 Vredestein tires currently mounted. To meet most vintage racing regulations, the transmission and differential must remain as originally equipped, and shredding these components doesn't seem to be happening on a regular basis. High rev, clutch dropping starts are not in the cards.

After reading stacks of Classic Ford magazines, thanks Holywood3645, and spending more hours than I care to admit, trolling through turbosport.com, I believe the 2000E transmission/English axle differential has sufficient capacity to handle the type of driving I am envisioning. There seem to be any number of Escorts/Cortinas, etc, that are running this engine, transmission, differential combination in cars far heavier than a portly driver, trim wife loaded, sedately driven Plus2.

[PeterK]

I like the 2000E behind my 2 litre Zetec - it's a great box with a lovely gear change. With standard diff, my speedo will readily show over 100mph, so no need for any more, although it does get a little noisy over about 60mph.
For around and about town it is fine - and if I'm feeling lazy and with 150bhp, almost no need to ever change gear
Peter

[vxah]

Sorry guys I was not meaning to cause upset at all, I know the standard drive train is plenty durable for the job it's more the plodding journey I was thinking about! Having driven the car for 30 years with a 4 speed, jogging along with traffic at 60mph with over 3k rpm feels a bit manic especially when you have the torque to run at 2500 rpm with your zetec or whatever?
Of course getting that slick shift is another thing, does the MT75 come close?

[Spyder fan]

Is this turning into a purists thread?

The 5 speed versus 4 speed arguments have been done to death. The standard lotus 4 speed gearbox as supplied with most Elans has a very precise change and is a good work horse. Most Elans were supplied well before the motorway network when there was very little scope for sustained high speed cruising, what you needed back in those days was fast acceleration to make good progress by blasting past all the slow traffic that was prevalent. The standard gearbox was great for keeping the twincam on song.

Its nearly 50 years since the first +2 was built, road conditions have changed and there are good reasons for wanting an extra cog as well as a bit more power. I do over 5000 miles a year in my +2, a lot of those miles on the motorway.

If you want an occasional weekend blaster, then consider keeping the standard gearbox, but if you have any touring in mind look seriously at getting an extra cog or 2.

[prezoom]

Didn't the first mods come from the factory itself? Electric windows, brake servos for the weak legged, folding tops, lowered foot boxes to prevent those "heavy Webers" from hitting, alternators, etc, et al. Oh, and what about the 26R? Mods is mods. As time progresses, better options come along, including the Spyder chassis. Back to the garage and modifying the sump on the Zetec........

[PeterK]

With Zetec, fuel injection, adustable suspension all round, custom loom (including 46 fuses and 14 relays), and Porsche Guards Red paint I don't think that I'm allowed in the purist camp

There were no MT75s around at the time I needed one during my full nut & bolt resto. Not a major issue as I do local driving and love the feel of the 2000E - takes me back to my youth. So I rebuilt the 2000E at the time but do now have an MT75 in the loft, waiting for an excuse to take the body off again. Maybe that would encourage me to venture further afield.
Peter

[Si Geen]

Hello everyone,

I'm investigating what to do about my failing starter motor on my Spyder plus 2 with 2.0 Silvertop zetec.

The car is great, except for the exhaust clearance and the starter which only works when the car is cold.

I'm about to change the starter, so any tips as to a full proof make and model replacement would be greatly appreciated. I've seen some pretty good posts which may explain why it's happening but I don't want to invest in a starter which develops the same issues.

I look forward to your reply's

Si

[elan66]

Hi Si
have you tried putting a hest shield on the starter.Spyderfan has just got new exhaust manifolds which should have much better clearance
regards
Paul

[Spyder fan]

There's 2 types of gearbox on Spyder conversions. One is cable type clutch that has the starter motor on the left under the exhaust side and the other is hydraulic clutch which has the starter motor on the right under the injection/carburettors as per original.
If you have the cable clutch gearbox, then the exhaust manifold has to go under the removable crossmember which exposes it to damage and problems with ground clearance. The first Spyder conversions used the cable clutch gearbox and the exhaust manifold was designed to suit this. When it was realised that there was a stronger hydraulic type clutch gearbox available Spyder started using it, but didn't realise that the exhaust manifold could be redesigned to improve ground clearance.
There's nothing new under the Sun, and it's amazing how my good friend Grumpy Bodger (John Pelly) comes to the rescue here and donates the pattern of his bespoke exhaust manifold via Mike Duff to improve upon the quite compromised Soyder design manifold. I hope to be able to report in the next few weeks on my new manifold and how it improves ground clearance as well as how it improves general engine breathing and power..

Unfortunately if you have a cable clutch Spyder conversion you are stuck with the standard manifold, but if you follow my lead of using correct 65 profile tyres rather than 60 profile you will gain better ground clearance and visually better wheel arch gaps.

[Si Geen]

Thanks for the reply's. The increased tyre radius is a very good idea which I'll adopt in due course. In the mean time I'll just fit a like for like ford starter (not reconditioned) as well as look to extend the small heat shield which I currently have fitted.

Thanks for the advice.

Regards

Si

[niallf]

Hello everyone,
I'm investigating what to do about my failing starter motor on my Spyder plus 2 with 2.0 Silvertop zetec.
The car is great, except for the exhaust clearance and the starter which only works when the car is cold.
I'm about to change the starter, so any tips as to a full proof make and model replacement would be greatly appreciated. I've seen some pretty good posts which may explain why it's happening but I don't want to invest in a starter which develops the same issues.

Hi Si (and everyone),
I'm pondering the same issues with my early'ish +2 Zetec. I've heard mention of using a Gear Reduction Starter as a solution, not sure that it is, or if one would fit. My other plan is to make a more significant heat shield, possibly using something like http://www.elise-shop.com/technofibra-620-x-265mm-rigid-self-adhesive-heatshield-p-502328.html.

I'll also increase the rolling radius/ride height as per Alan's suggestion. I wondered if anyone tried 70 profile tyres, rather than 65.
Other than that, if anyone knows of a hydraulic clutch MT75, I'd be interested!

Niall

[Spyder fan]

Niall,
The 65 profile tyre on a 14 inch wheel makes the radius the same as the original 13 inch wheels with 82 profile tyres that were standard on a +2 when new.

If you increase to 70 profile you will get problems with the tyre rubbing the inner arches on full lock.

The nearest you can get to the original 601mm diameter is with 65 profile tyres on 14 inch wheels (596mm) 60 profile are quite a bit smaller (578mm) which is why the gap is so pronounced.

Here's a chart I made

[niallf]

Cheers Alan,
Useful stuff. My plus 2's currently sitting with its front & rear screens out as I sort out a better fuel tank non-spillage and breather solution and my list of other niggly things such as 4-pot front brakes, tidying wiring & sorting out the heater box. Possibly see you at C. Combe, but I'll be in an Elise, not the Elan.
Niall

[pauljones]

Finally back in UK for good this time,how's all the zetec leans going?

Typically things have changed so I better get on with this conversion. I'll be using my standard chassis now I think for a bit of speed.Also to reduce the impact of moving home.

So here's the plan, twink out, 1800 silvertop zetec in with standard 4speed box. Buy dcoe manifold to fit induction side. Use exhaust that came with engine, package came out of elan so hopefully fits.

Using race line coolant rail so should be able to use my currently fitted cliveyboy rad.

Sounds simple and I hope it will be.

So jobs that will need doing,

Engine out.
Cut n weld front cross member.
Cut n weld / fabricate engine mounts.
Source clutch components, engine was previously mated to MT75.
Source elbow joint take off from water rail, didn't come with one.
Pipes from above to rad and pipes from rad to pump.
Zetec in.
Connect intake.
Connect cooling pipe work.
Connect exhaust manifold that came with engine,may need longer center pipe to reach rear box.
Load edu with zetec map and connect in lambda sensor.

Drive off into sunset...

Sound reasonable??

[Spyder fan]

I now have a Dunnell exhaust manifold fitted to my +2. As mentioned previously this item takes the traditional route underneath the LH engine mount rather than the Spyder manifold which goes under the "removable crossmember" and under the ARB. This makes the exhaust manifold the lowest point at the front of the car right where all the suspension movement is going on, this equals a high possibility of grounding over speed humps or simply bumpy uneven roads.

On Sunday I deliberately tried to ground the car out by driving from Beachy Head to East Dean on a notoriously bumpy road with raised crown, depressions and subsiding edges as well as lots of adverse camber. I used to grimace in anticipation of the manifold scraping the road in at least 6 places along this route, but absolutely fine. The roads around my house have "traffic calming" speed humps that are a bit fierce even for a 4x4, I used to have to slow right down to walking pace to clear them without risk of proper damage, now it's just easy at the same speed as other traffic.

Spyder manifold



Dunnell manifold


This is what a Spyder manifold looks like fitted, you can see it's right at the point where suspension travel is going to cause problems.


I don't have any finished photo's of the manifold fitted from the underside, but it follows the normal route under the passenger foot well then hugs the side of the gearbox. There is just a single pipe exposed and its the same ground clearance height as the sump.