Lotus Elan

MT75 parts help needed

PostPost by: stugilmour » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:16 pm

Hoping folks can help with a general question regarding MT75 parts. Background is I am not aware of any North American Fords that used this gearbox, so finding the various donor cars confusing and can’t be sure what I have.

We have my Spyder supplied MT75 in bits right now. I need to source some very standard spares for it, including a bearing kit, synchro (baulk?) rings, and seals. I contacted Sean at Spyder and he emailed me two parts drawings (without the part names attached :shock:) and said to just tell him what I need and Bob’s your uncle.

Trouble is the one drawing he sent looks like a three rail top mounted shifter and is marked Transit, rather than what I have, which I thought was from a second generation Ford Scorpio, 1995 to1998 with a single shaft coming out the rear of the casting (no shifter hole on top of the casting). The pictures in the on-line Scorpio MT75 Repair Manual look like my gearbox, although I am not sure on the starter motor location (mine is on the Lotus TC inlet side and fits my Spyder chassis fine after minor modification). However, the Scorpio parts drawings on the same site show a completely different casting with the shifter on top?

Scorpio Repair Manual(s)

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/mantrans.htm

Scorpio MT75 Parts Drawing(s)

http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/mt75.htm

The other Spyder supplied parts drawing of the gearbox internals shows all six baulk rings as the same part number. The Scorpio Service Manual references running changes to the synchro design (bevel angle on selected gears and a different first/second set-up) so not sure what I have. We have not taken the shafts apart yet and I am not doing the work, just trying to get the correct parts. Ideally I can figure out what we need and get it here before Malcolm pulls the shafts apart.

Every bearing and seal kit set I look at does not call up the Scorpio. Further, I understand there was a different car in Europe called a Scorpio that was called a Granada in the UK? They generally reference a Sierra as well. The other popular MT75 callup is a Transit van, but that seems to have a completely different bell housing? We never got any of these cars over here, so completely confused! We did get a car called the Merkur Scorpio, but it used a T9.

I am OK with ordering the parts from Sean if required, but would like to try to just get a few standard rebuild kits (bearings, baulk rings, seals, O rings, etc) if they are available. I don’t really know what to ask for in terms of donor car, and we did not get an MT75 in anything I know of in North America. I may even be able to get parts from my local Ford dealer if I can figure out what to ask for. I have been looking on the net, primarily eBay UK, and am totally confused.

A last general question regarding gearbox overhaul. The bearing kits seem to include the main shaft bearings, but not the smaller roller/needle bearings associated with each gear. Are these normally renewed during a rebuild, or just on an ‘as required’ type deal? I am thinking we should be able to match these up locally? I did see a remark in the inter web that these are prone to making noise if there is shaft wear.

Any help appreciated. Maybe a suitable Ford parts supplier in the UK that I can call? The Burton selection for the MT75 is pretty limited and also doesn’t reference the Scorpio.

Stu
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
2000 Esprit V8 TT
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1679
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPost by: mbell » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:59 pm

The MT75, like the T5, was offered in various forms with different bell housings, casings and ratios depending on car and engine. See:

http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/compone ... 5-gearbox/

In terms of cars:
- Transit is a Van, very very common...
- Ford Sierra was a mid-size saloon/hatch. Basic car was offered in NA as Mekur but with different engine/transmision. Mostly used the type 9 box thou.
- Ford Scorpio and Granada was full size salon/hatch and sold in much lower volumes. I think they were offered in NA briefly as Mekur. The Scorpio replaced the Granada.

I assuming there isn't a model number stamped on it anywhere? If not I think checking its ratio's, case/bell housing and selector location should allow you to identify the box source. (Maybe post a few picture here.)

I doubt you local ford place will have the parts for MT75 but shouldn't be hard to get them from UK/Europe.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1384
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: snowyelan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:05 am

There was a merkur xr4ti that may have had the mt75 box that was available in Canada and I think USA. Not positive about it but reverse wasn't in the usual "6th" (below 5th) gear position. The ford dealerships in Canada were less than helpful about the Merkurs even though a lot of parts cross referenced to common fords here. Unfortunately (due to shipping costs) Europe is probably your best option for parts.
Scott
45/9011
Hawkestone, On, Ca
snowyelan
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 158
Joined: 14 Sep 2003
Location: Hawkestone, Ontario, Canada

PostPost by: stugilmour » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:52 am

Had forgot about the XR4Ti. Remember the car now. Unfortunately looks like a T9 was also used in it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkur_XR4Ti

Any help with ID’ing the gearbox appreciated. As it is in bits and at the shop, it will take a moment to get pics.

I gave ploughed thru a lot of the Seven site linked above but did not see one with the starter on the right side (inlet side for the Lotus TC). I did see a post here that indicated one needs to source an MT75 from a LHD car to get this bellhousing, but I cannot verify this. That said, I would expect the bearing kit, seals, O rings, and synchro’s to be consistent between many of the variants, but perhaps what I am after is not common enough to be on eBay UK?

Here are a few drawings from the linked Scorpio Repair Manual that show the gearbox. Mine looks just like this one.

Cheers!

Stu
Attachments
e64f0663-59c0-40af-adaf-2d9200e37590.png and
This one shows the reverse/clutch switch a bit clearer. Unfortunately the Repair Manual doesn’t show the right side of the gearbox, but the speedo cable angle drive is attached to the right side. I believe the Scorpio uses a speed sensor located left side underneath the cover shown in the drawing (below the 2 in the drawing).
308c4aae-5540-440e-9361-c7a87b36a454.png and
Pretty much the same view.
03b15887-5310-4c66-9038-2822575a6e7f.png and
This one shows the integral cast alloy bellhousing with the input shaft cover (O ring seal around a main seal) and I believe the lay shaft below. Note starter motor position on the right side of the box (when oriented from the driver’s seat I guess).
5e9a3504-434f-46fa-a254-fa0889543915.png and
View from the left rear. Note no shifter mounted on top of the casting. The rectangular box on the side of the case is a reverse/clutch electrical switch. Note it is I guess called a single rail shifter configuration? At any rate, there is one shifter rod emerging from the top rear of the case. Shifting is executed using a Spyder supplied custom shifter mount with a rose joint linkage. I believe this is exactly the same gearbox Spyder uses for their Zetec Plus 2’s, if that helps with identification. The main output shaft on mine has a Spyder supplied custom flange rather than the three pointed affair shown here.
Last edited by stugilmour on Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
2000 Esprit V8 TT
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1679
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPost by: stugilmour » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:12 am

A couple more drawings from the linked Scorpio Removal Manual. Hopefully help with identifying the gearbox.

Stu
Attachments
0b1f233e-dc66-4463-ad6a-72dc79214e0e.png and
This one shows the Scorpio remote shifter. It is not used in the Spyder setup. Including to show how it is attached to the gearbox.
f8815922-e34c-47fb-8619-ae4a934e1276.png and
This one shows the Scorpio starter (right side of the car?). Mine looks similar with the large separate solenoid on top. That said, I can’t figure this drawing out as to whether it is on the inlet or exhaust side?
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
2000 Esprit V8 TT
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1679
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:12 pm

Stu,

I might be able to help, but it won't be easy.

I overhauled my MT75 in 2016, and most of the parts were available from my nearest Ford agent. The difficulty is that the parts man needs the vehicle registration number or the VIN (vehicle identification number) before he can start to help. As a UK resident I took the registration number and the VIN plate from the scrap Scorpio that I took the gearbox from.

The Scorpio replaced the Granada, and was the largest saloon (sedan) in the UK Ford range. As the largest vehicle, many were automatics. Scorpios were ugly and did not sell well. I don't know of availability in other European countries.

To he best of my knowledge all manual Scorpios have the starter on the right hand (carburettor) side. The gearbox was used in various Ford products, so I assume that most of the internal parts are common.

A company called Mitchell Cotts Tamsmisiion in Weston Super Mare in Somerset used to overhaul these gearboxes and might be able to help. I think they also altered the gearbox to fit a Morgan sports car.

The bearings seals and 'O' rings are probably generic. I asked my nearest SKF stockist, and he was more expensive than Ford, but worth a try in Canada.

When I cleaned my gearbox prior to dismantling, I found a self adhesive plastic label with a bar code this might help if present on your gearbox.

I am on holiday at the moment and won't be home until March, but I think I kept the parts wrappers of the bits I used. If you are willing to take the risk that parts that fit my gearbox will also fit yours, and assuming they are still available, I could purchase on your behalf and send to you.

Richard Hawkins
RichardHawkins
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 633
Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Location: Lincolnshire U.K.

PostPost by: c42 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:15 pm

User avatar
c42
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 309
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Location: Rugby, Warwickshire

PostPost by: stugilmour » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:04 pm

Thanks for the reply’s. Anyone know where the transmission tag is located? I haven’t seen one on my gearbox, but may have missed it. The Scorpio site has a very good tag decoder, but no reference to it’s location.

John, thanks for the links. One of the suppliers I had not seen.

Stu
Stu
1969 Plus 2 Federal LHD
2000 Esprit V8 TT
User avatar
stugilmour
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1679
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPost by: crypto » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:52 pm

Stu, a while a go I bought an MT-75 from a junk-yard / breaker.
It looks like this and seems to come from a Ford Sierra 2.0.
bell.jpg and
MT75 Ford Sierra 2.0 Bellhousing

body.jpg and
MT75 Ford Sierra 2.0 Casing

tail.jpg and
MT75 Ford Sierra 2.0 Tail/Gearstick


How did you/do you get along with the conversion ? Would be interested to learn from you ...
Peter
The really good drivers have the bugs on the side windows (cit. Walter Röhrl)
User avatar
crypto
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 102
Joined: 20 Apr 2014
Location: Switzerland

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests