Lotus Elan

5 speed gearbox conversion

PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:15 am

John

Potentially they changed the shaft when the matched it up to the 907 motor in the Elite for some reason.

i.e In the plus 2 they used the same shaft as the 4 speed and in the 907 application they used the same shaft splines and clutch plate as used in the Citroen box in the Esprit. May also have related to changes in things like shaft length and pilot bearing differences in the 2 applications.

Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7114
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:10 am

Rohan
I'll go for that (for now).

Thanks
John :wink:
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:21 am

John

Sounds like we need someone to line up a 4 speed Elan, 5 speed Plus 2 and 5 speed Elite boxes for comparison. Anyone have all three out of cars and in one place ? Maybe all three will be at Donnington

Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7114
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: M100 » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:33 am

On a gearbox known to have come off a 79 Elite, and on one known to have come from a 77 Elite.

Measured on the relatively unworn splines in a number of places

25 spline 1.095"OD = 27.8mm (about 30 thou more than 1 1/16" !)

I suspect the design size is probably 28mm x 25 spline

Some time ago someone mentioned in here it was off an MGB - the cover might be (can anyone confirm this?) but the clutch plate definitely isn't. It's not a "Ford" size either and I can't find a single cross reference to anything other than Lotus that used that size.

7/8" OD x 20 spline is definitely the 4 speed Ford size
Martin
72 Sprint DHC
User avatar
M100
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 766
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Yorkshire

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:18 pm

So all we need to know now is, is the input shaft on five speed boxes used on the plus2(and some elans) different to the input shaft used in the same box for the elite?
It looks that way!

John :wink:
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: M100 » Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:45 pm

I will probably be able to check out the splines on a "genuine" 5 speed Elan box tonight.
Martin
72 Sprint DHC
User avatar
M100
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 766
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Yorkshire

PostPost by: elans4dhc » Wed Mar 15, 2006 5:05 pm

I have all three gearboxes accessible at the moment and the input shafts are as follows:-
Elan 4-speed 20 spline 7/8"
Elan+2 5-speed 25 spline 17/16"
Elite 5-speed 25 spline 17/16"

Andrew King
elans4dhc
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 85
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Location: Scotland

PostPost by: M100 » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:21 pm

Confirmed again on a +2 box as 25 spline 1.095"OD = 27.8mm
Martin
72 Sprint DHC
User avatar
M100
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 766
Joined: 16 Sep 2003
Location: Yorkshire

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:39 am

Rohan
Looks like this one could be mine?

John :wink:
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:36 am

Glad we cleared this up.

Just one more problem for me is why my 5 speed appears to have had a different friction plate. Did I mislabel it when I pulled it out or is my gearbox really different for some reason. Based on the data I suspect my record keeping and labeling has let me down !!!


Unfortunately I will not find out for a while yet until I have a reason to pull the engine. I have a spare race head fully ported and setup for a .450 lift cam and have been contemplating what to do with it, maybe its time to build a nice high torque 7500 rpm, 170hp, 1760cc road engine for the plus 2.

A Datsun L18 crank, steel main caps, Carillo rods, forged JE pistons, 1600 block, new front cover with removable pump, got most of the other bits it wont cost much more than A$5000 to turn that spare head into a complete spare motor ? Then I have a reason to check the gearbox splines !

Rohan :roll:


Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7114
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:28 pm

Rohan
Don't go to all that trouble just for me,but when you do pull the engine out it would be good to know.

P.S.
I have two five speed boxes with "small" input shafts that i cobbled up myself (to make the changeover easier)but am too soft to fit them in the car and try them.....
Maybe one day when i've got time to spare..........

John :wink:
User avatar
john.p.clegg
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 5571
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: Manchester

PostPost by: simonriley11 » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:35 pm

What's the 'rubber bush' on the gearchange which you replaced with a direct bolt to improve the gearchange? Please advise as to what you did as my gearchange is in desperate need of improvement!
simonriley11
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 58
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Location: UK

PostPost by: sk178ta » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:56 pm

The original gear lever ends, or ended, with a weld to a short cylinder. The cylinder, like a hollow cotton bobbin but about 1" diameter, contained a rubber bush through the centre of which pokes the spigot from the gearbox, with a nut securing it. Instead I had, tapped to the same thread, a short tube welded to the end of the lever in place of the cylinder. This was simply screwed on to the spigot. The lever needed bending slightly to the right position. I should be at Donnington from around 11 a.m. on Saturday. Red DHC S3 LPM 7E. The doors are never locked so help yourself to a nosey. ( Burglars please ignore this !! )
Jim
sk178ta
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 132
Joined: 08 May 2004

PostPost by: simonriley11 » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:01 am

I don't think my gear lever is like that (+2/130/5). From the bottom upwards my gearlever has a fork (which actuates the selector rod in the box) then a short plain section, then a flat face, then a plastic ball which has a plastic half cup above it which then sits in the main plastic cup which is part of the large threaded 'nut' which screws into the top of the box. This 'nut' has a sort of metal 'fan' emananting from it's periphery which I have assumed that you tap over the ribs of the box casing (to stop it loosening in service) when you have tightened the 'nut'. Finally there is a stiff rubber gaiter which pushes onto the top of the ' ball and cup' assembly, I suppose to give something to push against when selecting reverse, and this is held in position at it's top by a circlip which locates in a machined groove in the gearlever. Oh and there is then a metal tube (circa 15mm diameter) which is welded to the lever above the gaiter, I've assumed this is to position the second gear lever gaiter which is the one you see from the interior. This sounds very different to your gear lever!
simonriley11
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 58
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Location: UK

PostPost by: sk178ta » Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:52 pm

The metal tube welded to the lever itself is exactly what I`ve got. Maybe a previous owner did something similar.
Jim
sk178ta
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 132
Joined: 08 May 2004
Previous

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: StressCraxx and 5 guests