Elan +2 Clutch Pedal

[Richard Howell]

Hello

I've just replaced the imfamous clutch hyraulic pipe and used a seals ect replacement kit on the slave and master cylinders. The clutch seems to be moving and the pedal seems hard at the last half inch of its play. However, it is slow to return to the normal resting position. I've read posts elsewhere that suggest this is due to air in the system, but I don't feel that this is the case in this instance.
What actually makes the pedal return to the top position?
Although there is a spring on the pedals bar this seems to be pointing in the wrong direction to push it upwards, there is also a spring at the slave cylinder, but I don't think this has any significance to the height of the clutch pedal. The only thing I can think of is the spring inside the master cylinder.
This seemsed very slack I would have replaced it, but it wasn't included in the kit.
Does anyone know where I can get hold of one other than to replace the master cylinder?
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Richard

[carrierdave]

Hi Richard,
What is the condition of the return spring on the slave cylinder like? The return of the pedal is governed by a number of things.
The fluid, the internal springs in the master cylinder, the pressure plate fingers and the release arm return spring.

When you depress the clutch and release, does the fluid level stay level, drop or is it slow to return?
Check the free operation of the slave cylinder and release arm - Is the release arm and push rod adjusted correctly?

You will need a spare pair of hands for some of the above, but you need to rule out some of the potential causes to find the actual problem.

Dave

[Richard Howell]

Hi Dave

The slave cylinder return sping seem pretty good to me, does that push the fluid up to aid the return of the clutch pedal? The spring inside the master cylinder seemed a bit limp, but is its main job to seal the master cylinder when the pedal is depressed rather than to return the pedal?
I accept it could still be air in the system.
There is also the doubel spring in the pedals box which appears to push the brake pedal up, but pull the clutch pedal down, does that make sense or is it assembled wrongly?

Thanks for your help, I'll check the fluid level with a helper soon.

Regards

Richard

[types26/36]

Hello

I've just replaced the imfamous clutch hyraulic pipe and used a seals ect replacement kit on the slave and master cylinders. . However, it is slow to return to the normal resting position. I've read posts elsewhere that suggest this is due to air in the system,
What actually makes the pedal return to the top position?

I think it unlikely air in the system would cause this, the pressure plate returning to the static position forces back the hydralic pistons, sort of like you pressing the clutch but the pressure plate is doing it the other way round. The slave cylinder is helped by the external spring and the the pedal by the spring on the pedal linkage so there is no "riding of the clutch"
Did you use GENUINE Lotus (girling) seals? there are a lot of cheap seals on the market which may or may not have the correct specifications, I have seen pedals be sluggish to return when fitted with non O.E. seals (not always Lotus cars)

[Richard Howell]

Hello

I've just checked the fluid level in the master cylinder and it stays at the same level. I've used the clutch pedal again and it feels firm apart from the last 2 inches as it lifts up where it sits slack.
I'll spend sometime on it this weekend it's probably something I've missed + your comments have helped a lot.
The parts are genuine Lotus.

Regards

Richard

[carrierdave]

Richard,
What did you use to clean out the master cylinder with? You need to be careful as the wrong substance could attach the new rubbers.

As Brian stated it is both the pressure plate and the return spring that push the fluid back through to the cylinder. As you have no movement in the fluid level there does not appear to be a problem with the seals back to the reservoir.
Therfore there is only movement of the fluid from one cylinder to another.

Have you used the same push rod and replaced the retaining circlip that holds the pushrod in position?

Dave

[Frank Howard]

Richard,

It's easy to attach the line where the bleeder screw is supposed to go and visa versa. If you have done this, you will never get all of the air out of the slave. Make sure that the bleeder screw is above the hydraulic line, not below it.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota

[Richard Howell]

Hello

I cleaned out the master cylinder with isophropyle alcohol + Used the correct grease for the seals. I do condider everything as it's often the things you don't suspect.

The hydraulic pipe is connected to the right place, I did want to swap positions as that would have made the bleed screw a lot more accessible, but the exhaust got in the way. I'd not thought about the height of the bleed screw in relation to the pipe, it's about the same level.

I think I'll bleed it a gain and go through all the setting up this weekend.

Regards

Richard

[Richard Howell]

Hello

Yes I've used the same push rod, but I'm pretty sure a new retaining clip came with the kit from Christopger Neil.

Richard

[Matt]

Hi

I rebuilt my clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder last month, at first I had the same problem you have, I put it down to air in the system as I was still getting air out with normal bleading. I connected up my gunson ezblead as my 5 year old helper / pedal presser was getting rather to horn happy. The ezblead got all the air out and it has been fine since.

Hope this helps

Matt

[Richard Howell]

Hi Matt

Nice car!
Thanks for that, I'll keep bleeding.

Regards

Richard

[Richard Howell]

Hello

I've had a mess about with the clutch pedal this morning.
I've tried bleeding it again adjusting etc, but with no improvement.
However, I've come to the conclusion that the pedal spring may be on incorrectly! There was major work on the breaking system before I bought it. Currently it is attached to the lower parts of both the clutch and break pedals and attached to the same side as the rubber pads, the action of which is (I believe) to depress the pedals.
Looking at the manual I think the spring should be depressing the upper parts of the pedal levers which would cause the pedals to be raised towards your feet. I hope that makes sense!
Basically the spring should be pushing the pedals in the opposite direction to the one you'd press the clutch in to avoid riding the clutch.brakes.
I'd be grateful for any thoughts or descriptions of your pedal spring.

Regards

Richard

[Frank Howard]

"I'd not thought about the height of the bleed screw in relation to the pipe, it's about the same level."

Richard,

Rotate the slave cylinder 90 degrees so the bleeder screw is at 12:00 and the inlet pipe is at 6:00.

Frank Howard
'71 S4 SE
Minnesota

[MintSprint]

Rotate the slave cylinder 90 degrees so the bleeder screw is at 12:00 and the inlet pipe is at 6:00.

IIRC, you can't just rotate the slave cylinder, 'cos it has a lug on it which is used to retain the return spring between that runs to the clutch release arm.... the lug has to align with the release arm so that the spring can run straight between the two. You actually have to swap the connection for the hydraulic line and the bleed screw over, so that the bleed screw is uppermost, if they are the wrong way round.

[Richard Howell]

Hello

I think the clutch pedal is now working as with it pressed in I can turnover the engine, but with it out I can't, so it appears to be engaging the gears.
However, I suspect the pedal return spring may be in upsidedown + I suspect there is still air in the system. I understand what you're saying about making the bleed nipple the highest point.
Currently I have a second fault as the car won't start, so when I solve that I'll have a better idea of how well the clutch hydraulics are working.

Thanks for your hekp so far!

Richard