Lotus Elan

Speedo angle drive questions.

PostPost by: Evante » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:02 pm

Hi All,

I have two questions about installing a new angle drive as my car came without one.

1) Should there be a washer that sits inside the brass cap on the angle drive (see pic)?

2) What type of lubrication should be used on the quill?

Thanks for your comments.

Jay S.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:37 pm

I'll answer your second question first:

1. The speedo drive gear should be well lubricated with gearbox oil.

2. A fibre or rubber washer would minimise the amount of this oil that could seep through onto the outside of the gearbox case.

:)
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PostPost by: Evante » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:59 pm

Thanks Foxie,

Just the answer I was looking for.

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PostPost by: bdea » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:54 am

My Speedo Angle Drive was leaking because it was sitting for 8 years after my retirement!

Upon inspection of the o-ring inside the fitting, there are several things you need to prevent leakage:

1) Check the o-ring for wear or cuts.

2) The o-ring must be installed correctly: the brass collar inside the knurled cap must be exposed by pushing the drive thru the knurled cap. Once the groove at the circumference of the brass collar is exposed, place the o-ring in the groove.

3) The seal is made by compressing the o-ring like a pancake!

4) Be sure to push the brass collar against transmission side and hold in place. Slide the knurled cap towards the transmission end of the drive and screw it down. May need pliers to screw down tightly!

5) Do not allow the drive to move or it will displace the o-ring!

Enjoy
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:07 pm

bdea wrote:My Speedo Angle Drive was leaking because it was sitting for 8 years after my retirement!

Upon inspection of the o-ring inside the fitting, there are several things you need to prevent leakage:

1) Check the o-ring for wear or cuts.

2) The o-ring must be installed correctly: the brass collar inside the knurled cap must be exposed by pushing the drive thru the knurled cap. Once the groove at the circumference of the brass collar is exposed, place the o-ring in the groove.

3) The seal is made by compressing the o-ring like a pancake!

4) Be sure to push the brass collar against transmission side and hold in place. Slide the knurled cap towards the transmission end of the drive and screw it down. May need pliers to screw down tightly!

5) Do not allow the drive to move or it will displace the o-ring!

Enjoy


Interesting.....I wasn't aware there should be an O ring in there, mine has never had one and I don't remember a groove as you describe. Maybe there are different types of angle drive ? I use a fibre or nylon flat washer between the brass face and the adaptor piece.
speedo-angle-drive-013-a.jpg and
O ring here ?
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PostPost by: bdea » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:48 am

That's where I thought it was, Maybe I'm Wrong. Thanks for the picture.Haven't been on the road to test it out yet. Will let you know what I find out.
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PostPost by: snowyelan » Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:15 pm

Going from memory here, but I think the O-ring is on the adapter that is toe-clamped to the tailshaft housing. I recall a fiber washer on the brass face. I used a bit of sealant on the washer too.
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PostPost by: prezoom » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:15 pm

I cut an O ring groove in the aluminum part from the transmission where the angle drive attaches, replacing the fiber washer. It has helped with the leaks, but now they have moved up to where the cable attaches. Sigh......
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:45 pm

Related question. Sorry for minor thread drift.

My MT75 uses an angle drive that is held in with a circlip. The circlip can be seated OK when the transmission is out of the car. However, when in place it is very difficult to even attach the speedometer cable fitting to the angle drive output without disturbing the circlip.

I thought adding an ~8” long cable extension to the angle drive output would solve the issue nicely. I could then easily access the connection of the two cables from below the car without disturbing the angle drive. Got the idea for a cable extension from seeing similar looking short extensions for the chopper motorcycle crowd when they relocate the instruments. Not the same Smiths thread though.

Having difficulty sourcing a male x female extension though. Not even sure if something exists. Speedy Cable didn’t reply after several enquiries, which I eventually took as a no. Relatively local and very knowledgeable Smiths cable guy says he could not supply the male thread similar to the angle drive output, which he says are 3/4" dia by 26 tpi whit. So the cable extension would be m x f between angle drive output and the existing cable.

http://www.vintagebritishcables.com/

Anyone have any ideas? Possible source? Done something similar?

Thanks

Stu
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PostPost by: Evante » Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:34 pm

Stu,

I am not sure if this will help but I was having connecting my cable to the angle drive when the angle drive was already attached to the tranny. I ended up first attaching the angle drive to the cable then simply attaching the agle drive to the transmission.

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PostPost by: jk952 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:39 pm

In case of interest to anyone who has not already taken one apart, below is a shot of the assembly.
The steel ferrule is about .235 inches dia. O/D, .125 I/D, cable piece about 2.2 long though hard to measure when sheared...
I just warmed up the angle drive to pop out the welsh plug, the steel ferrule took a lot more heat to disassemble from the cable piece.
.
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:08 pm

Evante wrote:Stu,

I am not sure if this will help but I was having connecting my cable to the angle drive when the angle drive was already attached to the tranny. I ended up first attaching the angle drive to the cable then simply attaching the agle drive to the transmission.

Jay S.


I think I ended up doing something similar Jay, but it was very difficult to ensure the circlip was seating correctly. Are you speaking about a circlip setup? I am assuming the stock transmission used a threaded coupling to the transmission, but can’t honestly remember.

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PostPost by: bdea » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:27 pm

Could anyone provide:

The dimensions of the fiber washer that seals the speedo angle drive to the transmission gear drive?

Did this seal the leakage? I had to tighten up the knurled nob with pliers to make it tight enough, I thought it was strange... i guess the washer would take up the slack and seal better!

My hypothesis was wrong about the o-ring sealing the speedo drive...too much thinking! :roll:

Checked out RDent's Parts Manual for diagram of *washer. http://www.rdent.com/manuals/index.html
* Parts Manual>Transmission>Casing>Item 40>Part #E316-ME-1>Gasket

Thanks to all that dispelled my theory of sealing the Speedo Angle Drive. :mrgreen:


oldelanman wrote:
bdea wrote:My Speedo Angle Drive was leaking because it was sitting for 8 years after my retirement!

Upon inspection of the o-ring inside the fitting, there are several things you need to prevent leakage:

1) Check the o-ring for wear or cuts.

2) The o-ring must be installed correctly: the brass collar inside the knurled cap must be exposed by pushing the drive thru the knurled cap. Once the groove at the circumference of the brass collar is exposed, place the o-ring in the groove.

3) The seal is made by compressing the o-ring like a pancake!

4) Be sure to push the brass collar against transmission side and hold in place. Slide the knurled cap towards the transmission end of the drive and screw it down. May need pliers to screw down tightly!

5) Do not allow the drive to move or it will displace the o-ring!

Enjoy


Interesting.....I wasn't aware there should be an O ring in there, mine has never had one and I don't remember a groove as you describe. Maybe there are different types of angle drive ? I use a fibre or nylon flat washer between the brass face and the adaptor piece.
Speedo angle drive 013 (a).jpg
Last edited by bdea on Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPost by: Evante » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:57 pm

Stu,

I was talking about the stock transmission with the threaded coupling. I would see that fitting a circlip would be much more difficult.

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PostPost by: oldelanman » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:36 pm

Could anyone provide:

The dimensions of the fiber washer that seals the speedo angle drive to the transmission gear drive?

Did this seal the leakage? I had to tighten up the knurled nob with pliers to make it tight enough, I thought it was strange... i guess the washer would take up the slack and seal better!

My hypothesis was wrong about the o-ring sealing the speedo drive...too much thinking! :roll:

Checked out RDent's Parts Manual for diagram of washer. http://www.rdent.com/manuals/index.html

Thanks to all that dispelled my theory of sealing the Speedo Angle Drive. :mrgreen:


Fitting a washer inside the knurled nut will certainly help with sealing the assembly but won't guarantee it will be leak free. After numerous attempts I eventually found that my angle drive itself was leaking from the large plug in the end which is just staked into the housing ... took it apart and applied sealer round the plug and that seems to have finally fixed it.
The speedo gear has a spiral groove around the stem designed to "wind" the oil back into the gearbox as it rotates, unfortunately it also provides an escape route for the oil when stationary. Our cars are generally stationary for longer periods these days which could be why we seem to have more of a problem with leakage. Well that's my theory anyway :roll:

I don't have dimensions for the washer I'm afraid, I just made one to fit when I had it all apart. The parts list does not show this washer as it was not an original fitment as far as I know.

Good luck !
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