Lotus Elan

Burton cartridge water pump fitment issues

PostPost by: seniorchristo » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:37 pm

2cams
I missed a few postings here but I can get that dimension for you later this evening. It's hard to believe Burton supplied such ill fitting parts seemingly without an effort to correct the problems. Thanks so much for your detailed posts. They will be invaluable to me when I fit my unit!
Thanks
Chris :)
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:22 am

seniorchristo wrote:2camsI missed a few postings here but I can get that dimension for you later this evening. It's hard to believe Burton supplied such ill fitting parts seemingly without an effort to correct the problems. Thanks so much for your detailed posts. They will be invaluable to me when I fit my unit!ThanksChris


Thanks for the feedback. It's nice to know someone actually reads these ramblings. I don't have any real issue with Burtons. We got there in the end eventually and apart from some manufacturing issues its a good product. Although it's a bit of fun we are dependent on such suppliers to enable us to keep these old war horses running so it's not in our own interests to bag them too much. Try and move it up the chain of command if you have a problem and remember most companies have an email address structure that follows the pattern firstname.lastname @ xyz.com if you wish to reach the higher ups!!
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PostPost by: seniorchristo » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:08 pm

2cams
The dimension you request ( water pump face to back plate mounting surface) is 1.194" on my front cover. the O ring fits easily and snugly in the groove. I plan to reinforce the thin portion of the O ring surround with JB Weld before mounting the pump.
Regards
Chris :)
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PostPost by: 512BB » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:19 am

Chris,

I used JBW to repair part of a water pump housing. It failed eventually and I would not use it again in that application. Why don't you take the opportunity whilst the casting is clean, to find an artisan in ali welding, to build up the casting where it is thin, and then dress it to suit. Much more permanent.

JB Weld is fantastic in certain places. I repaired a petrol tank where a very slight seep occured at a bolt fixing. Still good after some years.

Leslie
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:01 pm

512BB wrote:Why don't you take the opportunity whilst the casting is clean, to find an artisan in ali welding, to build up the casting where it is thin, and then dress it to suit. Much more permanent.
Leslie


+1 or see if you can take it back and get a replacement.

This old thread too shows what happens to the O-ring when the casting cracks here:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=39062
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PostPost by: seniorchristo » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:15 am

I bought my kit from a friend who purchased from Cortina Spares who I believe are now out of business. Since the JB weld will be used as a "preventive" measure and not a repair, I think it has possibilities. Putting it around the perimeter of the thin area and then carefully filing it until smooth and level. I don't know anyone with the expertise to weld on such a delicate area.
Chris :)
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:25 am

Someone experienced in repairing aluminium cylinder heads should be able to do it for you. It just requires a blob of weld as a backing to the thin area. It's much easier to reinforce it with a small blob of weld now rather than later if it cracks. Once it cracks there will be damage done to the O-ring groove which is then more difficult to repair.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:00 pm

Boy oh boy!! Is this starting to really crap me off or what!! Latest saga is that the new timing chain adjuster nut threads are incorrect and binding in the front cover. Original OEM one fits perfectly (of course!!!). Small mercies that at least it seems the adjuster nut threads are incorrectly cut rather than the ones in the front cover. That would be a real PITA pulling off the front cover again having already sealed everything up. This front cover has truly been the most painful part of the whole rebuild (Hope I'm not speaking too soon!)

One could probably wrench on the nut and force it in but that's really not the proper way is it. Comparing replacement and OEM nuts side by side it seems the replacement nut thread angle may be very slightly different.

Hmm.... Maybe it's the good old Whitworth versus UNC mix up again. The remanufactured parts makers don't know what's correct!!

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=40388
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:04 pm

I have mentioned on a separate thread (on the Burton water pump) to trial fit the cylinder head and timing chain; this is to check the clearance between the tensioner/chain and the inner face of the Burton front cover casting.

With mine, the casting core for coolant channel had been slightly missed placed and a correctly tensioned chain rubbed the casting. This was easily resolved by removing some metal from there front cover (and a rather indifferent attitude from Burton).

In my case, however, I only discovered this on final assembly, grrrr!
Malcolm

Edit. Having said, once fitted has worked faultlessly, albeit 15k Miles.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:09 pm

[quote="englishmaninwales"]I have mentioned on a separate thread (on the Burton water pump) to trial fit the cylinder head and timing chain; this is to check the clearance between the tensioner/chain and the inner face of the Burton front cover casting.
/quote]

Thanks - I'm not quite at that stage yet but we'll see!! This is likely to hold things up for a while in any case unless I decide to just reuse the original parts. This is an issue with the repro. tensioner nut and not the cover itself.
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:26 pm

I fitted a new tensioner plunger, spring, adjuster bolt and retaining nut into the Burton front cover, and other than the plunger requiring lapping in, no problems encountered, but likely to have been a different batch from yours.
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:57 pm

it 's the same old story. cad "designers" don't R E A D drawings as they never drew anything on a drawing board, nor is a blue print (here a bw copy) meaningful to them: so just don't expect too much from them: those dudes never need soap etc etc etc sandy PS im also infested as a swiss precision fetishist (PAV Lichtenstein, Tesa, Etalon, Mitutoya) - others dig armani PS - im in sardinia, havin' an ichnusa 16oz beer - lovely! --- had to leave wifey at home...............
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PostPost by: holywood3645 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:49 am

Is the Dave Bean kit a better option?
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:56 am

Like others have said despite some fitting and quality control problems I think that once you finally do manage to fit it all will be OK. Hopefully the post here will make things easier for the next person that comes along.The design itself does not seem to be a problem. Can't speak of the DB cover as I have no experience with it.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:57 am

A few years ago the DB covers had porosity problems and i have not had experience with them since. Others may have more recent history, I currently have a Burton cover for my next engine build with the common core shift and thin remaining metal where the O ring groove is milled due to this. Still trying to decide whether to do some repair welding buildup or use as is or reuse the existing cover.

cheers
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