Lotus Elan

fuel injection

PostPost by: gerrym » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:09 pm

John, I think you have a valid safety point. The original fuel design had a feeble "suck" of fuel from the tank to the engine via the mechanical pump. The safety implication of pressurised fuel at say 40psi is entirely different. Points to consider are:
1) safe routing away from damage potential (as John says keep away from Prop Shaft)
2) leak tight and tested with air or nitrogen. This means using a proper means of jointing such as AN (JIC) and paying attention to detail on the flares. Threads are not really suitable!
3) making sure lines can be inspected for damage and corrosion
4) eliminating risk of static burn through
5) fit an inertial kill switch
6) equip manifold with a micro pressure bleed-off back to return line
I've previously fitted my fuel lines into the backbone, but will redo this job and relocate to the inside of the car (using annealed stainless tubing if it works with the Rollair).

Regards
Gerry
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PostPost by: pauljones » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:56 pm

Just a quick update,tomorrow i shall be ordering the injection system from Dave Walker at emerald,thanks to Jason for the link.all in at a very good price,less than 2k.hopfull that will be fitted on my week off,photos will apear here.just a question for anyone that may have done this conversion,can we see dyno results,im thinking we will all be suprised at the results.When mine is rolling road set up it will be on here for all to see

Happy Xmas all,thanks for the advice

Paul
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PostPost by: pauljones » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:46 pm

An update,and plee for help.Just waiting for my fuel injection to arrive with the rest of the delayed xmas post,so MAY be up and running sooner than i thought, May need some help or advice,the fuel pump is an external bosch type that needs to be gravity feed.Has anyone else used simmilar pumps? if so where did you mount them, and were there any unseen problems ect ect.

the intention is to have the feed from the standard position,ie front centre of the tank,gravity feeding through an inline filter (xjs v12) to the pump.Then along to another of the same filters just before feeding the fuel rail. The return will simply (?) lead to the return on the tank.

Does this sound OK to those who have carried out a conversion to EFI or am i completly wrong and nuts???

Many thanks,

Paul
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PostPost by: elansprint » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:18 pm

Paul the pumps are normally fitted below the tank for the gravity feed & where they get some airflow as they get chuffing hot if the mounting bracket is steel a bit of duralac on the bracket stops the ally pump body corroding
Ian
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PostPost by: gerrym » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:59 pm

Paul, in addition to the issues identified wrt pump mounting, you need to ensure the pump gets a continuous supply of fuel with no air ingestion. This is essential for the health of the pump and because the injectors can only meter liquid and not aerated fuel or air. As the Plus 2 tank does not have suitable internal baffles or a "well" for an internal pump, you might wish to consider an external "swirl pot" or a new bespoke fuel tank. The swirl pot is a cylindrical can with a feed for the pump taken from near the bottom, plus connections for a return from the injection rail (pressure regulator), a vapour balance line back to the tank, a gravity feed from the tank etc.

A tip for the plumbing, ensure that you can replace the filter element without soaking the boot lining and sound deadening material.

Regards

Gerry
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:55 am

Paul

Pump and swirl pot located in the nose,only high pressure hoses are from pump to fuel rail,fuel rail to pressure regulator[attachment=0]efi pump and swirl 3.jpg[/attachment]

John :wink:
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efi pump and swirl 3.jpg and
efi pump and swirl2.jpg and
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PostPost by: pauljones » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:31 am

Hi all,

The tank is being made by Andy Wiltshire as we speak for collection next week.The fuel out will be in the standard place,with the return being mounted top left of the front face near the filler pipe.Im now thinking of getting a "suck" pump to feed through the first filter and provide preasure to the second pump,it may be the wrong way, but i supose it will garantee a good suply of cleen,filtered fuel to the high preasure pump..And it kind of solves the problem of where to mound all of these,in the boot..

hope im on the right track,

Paul

just a thought,can i run the new fuel tank,through the origonal fuel pipe to the standard engine mounted pump and use the outward side,through a filter and non return valve, to the high presure pump(which i can then mount in the front) and then to the rail with the return off to the tank...save's me running a second pump..???
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PostPost by: jono » Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:38 pm

Well, my engine is booked in with Paul Exon to be converted to wasted spark and FI within the next 4 weeks (as soon as TTR send me their fast road exhaust manifold, which they are currently having made).

The engine will be run and mapped on Exon's test cell and come as a complete turnkey unit.

...I will let you know how I get on :wink:

Jon
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:45 pm

That would be great,ive now got my fuel tank and its a work of art,Andy really is the man with these,well worth it.And the Emerald system is looking the dogs nads too.Now all i need to do is get in the same country as my car so i can fit them.

When its all up and running and set up properly,the results will be posted on these pages,so I cant hide the truth.ill put in a costings aswell.so far im into £2k,just.....

The bits i need now are fuel pipe suply and return,and two filters with dash 6 fittings....any ideas???


Paul
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PostPost by: SimonH » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:17 pm

Paul,

I would suggest a Sytec fuel filter. They are available with all types of fittings, not cheap but very nice.

These people have a good selection.

I am just running some 8mm stainless tube down the backbone for my FI system. I can dig out where I got it from if you are interested and they also sell fittings to take it to a threaded union.

Cheers,
Simon
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:45 pm

Simon,

That would be great if you can dig that out for me,just a quick question,is a dash 6 size,a unique type of size,or does it have a metric/imperial size that matches? oh and those pro filters do look nice,id need two of them.over £100 for them is a bit pricey,but they are nice...!!!!

Thanks,

Paul
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PostPost by: SimonH » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:46 pm

Paul,

I got my tube from here as they had the 316L grade tube in seamless that I was advised to use. Others may have other ideas and they are perhaps not an obvious place to buy from but I am going with this in 8mm and they happily sell one length without a trade account or anything. It will run through grommets at the backbone ends and supported along the length by rubber lined p clips. I will also ground it to the chassis against static discharges.

I assume your new tank has a inbuilt swirl pot? I would think one of the cheaper filters on the non pressure side of the pump with push on fittings would do there and then the JIC thread on the pressure side. There are some slightly smaller versions of those £56 filters at about £34 that would do.

As I understand it JIC threads are a UNF thread with a conical sealing face where as straight UNF fittings need a washer to seal. I may not be totally correct here but its what I was told years back.

Cheers,
Simon
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:11 pm

Simon,

The tank is the standard Andy Wiltshire fuel injection tank.its got a sectioned off area inside the tank with a line out in the standard lotus position and a return mount that flows into this boxed area.Both use -6 screew threads.The bosch pump i got from emerald is -6 in and out,so it makes sence to me to stick with that fitting.the pump needs to be gravity feed so im not sure where to mount it just yet,but i see no reason why i cant put it inside(the boot) with the lines running through the body and not out side.I have some pics of others cars and most seem to be completly different so ill just see what happens along the way...

ill look into those sites,thanks.Paul
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PostPost by: SimonH » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:45 pm

Paul,

The tank sounds good. I had wondered what his fuel injection tanks were like. I may look into one of those for mine.

I agree it makes sense to use -6 if all parts that you have use it. I'm sure there are cheaper similar filters but those Sytec ones are very good, especially if you mount it in the boot. Cant see why the pump and filter cant go in the boot with another pre injector filter in the engine bay.

You probably could run the hoses in the car but I wouldnt be sure on that one.

Cheers,
Simon
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:13 pm

Simon,if i were you id have one of his tanks.£339 for the FI version if im right,there are probably cheaper ways of doing it but id like to see the quality first.Take it from me its the dogs..!! i called and asked if i could have it in a week,it was done in a few days and i picked it up,well worth the drive.He has made them bespoke for others with pumps in the tank ect so is happy to accomadate our needs,but the standard one i got is exact to origonal,just better quality.look on the listings in companys for his details.

i really cant praise him enougth...
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