Lotus Elan

Fuel injection again.....

PostPost by: berni29 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:06 am

Hi

In a post a while back I mentioned that I wanted to have a go at making throttle bodies out of a set of 40 DCOE's. Apparently someone by the name of Dave Walker wrote an article on how to do it. I cannot find anything about it anywhere. Does anyone know of it, or if it is a worthwhile exercise?

Many thanks.

Berni
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PostPost by: niallf » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:35 am

Hi Berni,

It's highly likely that it was Dave Walker who owns Emerald and was the technical editor for Car & Car Conversions Magazine.

http://www.emeraldm3d.com/index.html

This is the same company that makes the ECU in my Zetec +2. Possibly worth giving them a call.

Niall
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PostPost by: M100 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:58 am

Dave Walker published it in an article in CCC many years ago (early Emerald days). I have a copy somewhere but it wasn't pretty and needed a milling machine to machine the injector pockets (seem to recall some metal epoxy paste also being used)

I just had a quick look at his (Haynes) book on engine management and while there are a couple of pictures of homebrew throttle bodies they are not the ones he published in CCC.

These days it would probably be more cost effective to sell the carbs on ebay for a fortune and buy brand new throttle bodies!
Martin
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PostPost by: simon.mitchell » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:36 pm

Bernie,

What about using bike throttle bodies? There was an article about doing this in a recent edition of 'Practical Performance Car' magazine http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/. Cheap, because apparently lots of people fall off bikes and consequently the scrapyards are full... Incidently the same mag recently carried a article about performance tuning the twin cam - oh, and Dave Walker now writes for it too.
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PostPost by: berni29 » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:56 am

Hi Guys...yes it was him, many thanks. I am going to list the carbs on ebay (I have two sets at least) and look into the motorcycle route as well. The way that I was planning to do the webers was to insert the injectors between the carbs and the head using tapped plates. I will let you know how I get on.....

Thanks again
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PostPost by: fasterbyelan » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:46 am

Simon,

What issue of 'Practical Performance Car' was the twincam article in?

Regards,

Karl
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PostPost by: simon.mitchell » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:59 pm

Karl,

The article was in issue 18 / October 05

Cheers,

Simon
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PostPost by: berni29 » Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:28 pm

Hi

Well I have taken the first step which is buying some Suzuki GSXR 600K throttle bodies. This is probably all a really bad idea but at least it is a bit of a kitchen table job for winter........I will let you know how I get on.

Question for Naill or Simon, on the Zetec conversion, did you run a fuel line back to the tank from the pressure regulator? If so how?

Thanks

Berni
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PostPost by: type26owner » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:25 pm

Berni,
You're nuts to attempt building your own FI setup. That's just the type of person I need to offer my vintage Telamite-Jackson mechanical complete fuel injection kit to. I bought it as a backup alternative to the Webers a few years ago so if I could not learn how-to tune the DCOEs very well I could install this unit instead. It is extremely rare and the only one-of-a-kind like it I've ever seen before. This is not a racing unit, it was designed to fit on a stock Lotus Cortina twinkcam. However, from first-hand experience this is a fire that has not happened yet so don't install this unit in your perfect and valuable Elan. I've never had it running and it's never been installed on a car before. It's NOS. Only the technically talented should even consider buying this unit. You have been forewarned.

I have extensive racing experience with this type of unit and know all it's weak points. I will complete the modifications to make the unit more reliable but it will never be as reliable as carburetors. It'll take me a couple of months to complete the work before I list it here for sale. I'm probably the leading authority in the world on how the system is tuned too.

We were the only ones to get ours to run on our racecar back around 1970. That drove Steve Griswold nuts. I never told him how we did it even though I worked for him for a time and he demanded to know. :lol:
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PostPost by: simon.mitchell » Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:33 am

Hi Bernie,

My set up is as follows; from the main outlet under the tank (it's neccessary to raise the tank slightly so that all of the pipework is inside the car) to a swirl pot, from the swirl pot to the fuel pump inlet, fuel pump outlet to the filter. Running from front to back inside the chassis are two metal fuel pipes, so from the filter via one of the pipes to the fuel rail, then the pressure regulator then back via the other pipe to the top of the swirl pot. Additionally the top of the swirl pot is connected to the n/s tank vent, with the o/s tank vent connecting to the filler neck via a pipe running through the headlining. No reason why you shouldn't use fuel hose to connect the front of the car to the back though - I used 8mm i/d 10 bar hose.

I'm intending to post some pics online somewhere when I get around to it, but in the meantime I can mail you some pics if you want to see the set up in more detail.

Cheers,
Simon
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PostPost by: berni29 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:29 pm

Hi Keith

Thank you for your comments. I probably am nuts, but the reason I want change to fuel injection is that I think that it is superior to carburetion. Every car that I have known that has a fuel injected version versus a carburetted model (ranging from V12 jaguars to Mazda 323's) always runs better with the fuel injection. I have to use four motorcycle throttle bodies because that is the only option for me given my budget. In my ignorance I really do think that it will work out OK. I am not after a performance increase as such, just better cold and general running.

Hi Simon, thanks for the information. With the body on running the pipe back to the tank will be a real pain. Not sure what the best thing to do with that is. Might use the hard plastic pipe up against the chassis. Also I might do away with the swirl pot and use a big fuel filter.

All the best
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PostPost by: lotusanglia1965 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:26 pm

I think we are talking efi now, which is lightyears ahead of mechanical injection. must be the way forward,especially with 3d ignition. I've mapped a few cars now, find it so easy to finely alter fuel with the touch of a laptop, would never want carbs again! Don't want to offend anyone,just another way of looking at things.Keith,i'm still in awe of your weber knowledge,hope i get even half as clever with efi.
Martin
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PostPost by: jayrz » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:07 am

After my complete disgust with the running and problems of my U.S. fed version Stromburgs I was looking to bike carbs. Hmmmm, info out there but little useful.
Used to own a V8 powered 240z, dont ask, anyway I bumped into a thead on the hybridZ board about Megasquirt. And, although time consuming the system is well layed out and fuel injection is VERY possible!

Bernies idea with the bike TBs is definately the way to go. Looks like it'd be completely possible to fuel inject a twink for under a grand.
Google search "Megasquirt fuel injection" and start reading...
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PostPost by: berni29 » Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:54 am

Hi Guys

I have got the bike throttle bodies et al, and it is all looking good. I have two questions which someone might be able to help me with. Firstly does anyone know if I need to drill little holes in the butterflies like on my webers, and secondly, to mount them I need flanges with 40mm tubes (1" or so) sticking out so that I can mount the bodies (using silicone hose to hold them butted up against the inlet tube which is how it is done apparently). Anyone have any ideas there?

One thought I had was that I sould use the spacers that take the double "O" ring, get 2 welded together (for strength), then weld the pipe to one end and bolt up to the head. Does that make sense?

Any thoughts appreciated

Berni
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:46 am

Cannot you search the scrapyard for the "correct" mounting flanges?
John :wink:
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