Lotus Elan

GT6 Brakes revisited

PostPost by: Famous Frank » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:11 pm

There is such a mutitude of information on this site, .......I love you guys !!! This question may have been answered somewhere in past but to be honest, I occasionally get confused by the answers. Here is my question:

I own a 66 S2 SE (26/5738) that came from the factory with knock-on wheels. I would like to upgrade to GT6 front brakes. I have seen in previous posts what parts are needed but that post had to do with upgrading from bolt on wheels to GT6 brakes. If I already have knock on wheels, will I only have to acquire the 16P GT6 Calipers, the Rotors, and the Caliper Bracket? Or will I still have to also acquire the spindle, the hup, and the upright?

As always, thank you all very much!!!

BTW, New Elan S1 thru S4 Center Consoles are now available!
Famous Frank

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PostPost by: curly type 26 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:21 pm

Frank im sure you are on the money with, caliper, mount, disc. have fun Curly 1964 26Rr :D
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PostPost by: Jason1 » Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:47 pm

Hi Frank

Elan is not really my thing but the 16P calipers are fitted to the early +2 and then they went to 16PB calipers. I am pretty sure the Elan boys fit the +2 calipers all the time. If you do a search in the Elan section for '+2 calipers' I am pretty sure you will be reading until Christmas. :D

Good Luck

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16p calipers.jpg and
50/0951 1968 Wedgewood blue +2, 1990 Mini Cooper RSP
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:47 pm

16P calipers came in two bolt spacings 3.5 inch on the GT6 and 3.25 inch on the late Cortina GT.
A metric equivelent which I believe are the 16PB had the then new bolt spacing of 89 mm (3.5 inch imperial) and
I think a 12 mm bolt shank that threaded into the old imperial tapped holes in the caliper bracket that were
still an imperial 7/16 UNF (I think).

So if you can find a late Cortina GT you only need the calipers and GT6 rotors, if you get a GT6
you need the Rotors, calipers, and caliper brackets. (I think)

I haven't done the swap and those that have write it up only to be lost to the great hole called
Lotuselan.net/forums where nothing is found unless you bookmark the topic when you read it.

OK its photo time...

3.25 inch bolt spacing of the late Cortina caliper
Image

3.5 inch bolt spacing of the late GT6 caliper
Image
Last edited by garyeanderson on Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: Famous Frank » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:38 am

Curly, Jason, Gary, ...... Thank you all for the information.

Gary, your pics were worth a thousand words. This evening, I went through my stash of old parts I can't ....or won't get rid of. I found a pair of 16P Calipers. The bolt spacing is 3.25 inches. So, if I'm reading your responses correctly, all I need are some rotors. Yee Haa!!!! What a great find! Now there is a plan coming together. Now if I new where I could send them out to be rebuilt and have the same ones come back, properly rebuilt, and looking as good as the ones Jason sent a picture of, I'd send them tomorrow. And Bless the Cortina GT's.

Many thanks, Frank! I'll let you all know how it comes out.
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:08 am

John has caliper pistons for all of the calipers we use on the Elan, Plus2 and a lot of other calipers. I have bought stuff from him and we have spoke on the phone before. I don't know him other that to buy parts. He may have rebuild kits too but when I last talked to him 6 or so years ago he was having problems sourcing OEM girling kits and didn't like what he was getting else where, it may have changed in the years since. Give him a call and see whats what and rebuild your own
-------------------------------------
John Farrell Auto Parts
57D Alder St.
West Babylon, New York 11704
USA

Phone: (631) 454-7977 (800) 454 7977
Fax: (631) 694-7217
Email: [email protected]

Link
http://www.fortunecity.com/silverstone/tread/1046/id23.htm

Part U.S. # Dia. Style Most Common Applications Price


100529 17H7730 2.121" E MGA 1600 & 1600 MK2 with retractor pin $28.00


114712 19-1169 2.121" D MGB (with step on piston) $23.00


114713 19-1224 1.997" D MG Midget, AH Sprite (with step on piston) $22.00


32320329 19-1013 1.892" C CD6073 Deloreon DMC1 2 1980-81, Jaguar XJ6-1 2 1980 >.
XJS 1980-91, Lotus Esprit 1980-84, Morgan +8
1980-88, Triumph Spitfire 1, R.R., Bentley, BMW 320i $26.00


606683 19-1143 1.6235" B 3275-424 1.338" hight Land Rover, Discovery, etc. 1981> $25.00


606696 19-1157 1.6235" B 3275-425 1. 11511 hight Land Rover, Discovery, etc. 1981 > $25.00


64320002 19-1160 1.4135" J JLM2200P Ate Rear; XJ40 1990> (1.902" hight) $25.00


64320163 19-1150 2.373" A GB48668 AM, Ferrari, I.S.O., Lamborghini, Maserati, etc. $26.60


64320873 19-1156 2.1245" C AH 3000 BJ8 Deloreon, Ford GB, Morgan +8, Peugeot,
Triumph GT6 late Rover 2000T $25.25


64321392 19-1151 1.685" C Aston Martin V8 77-90, Jaguar XJ6 11 & III, XJ12, XJS 75-92 $24.00


64321880 19-1156 2.1245" C AH, Deloreon, Ford GB, etc, Morgan +8, Peugeot,
Triumph GT6 late Rover 2000TC $25.25


64325111 19-1149 1.685" A 1.3" high Cobra, Ferrari 365GTB, GTC, Jensen Interceptor,
MK III, Lamborghini, Maserati All Models 1965> $24.75


64326404 19-1206 1.892" A AH 1959-64, Lotus Cortina, Ford GB 1963-65, 1963-9/65,
Maserati Bora 117 1977>, Merak 122 1973-78,
Morgan 4+4,V61-65, Plus 4 59-66, Peugeot 404 67-8/68, $24.00


64325434 19-1225 1.500" A Alfa Guilia 101 1600 1963-68, Ferrari 365 GTB, GTC 1968 on
Jaguar XKE 9/68-71, Volvo P1 800 (All), Volvo 122 $24.50


64325436 19-1207 1.685" A Aston Martin DB5, DB6, DBS V8 1963-76, Cobra,
Damler SP250, DeTomaso Deauville Long Champ 1972>,
Jaguar 420 1967, XKE 4.2 9/68-71, XKE III V1 2 1971-74,
XJS, XJ12 1969-77, Lamborghini, Maserati (all models) $26.00


64325438 19-1162 2.248" A Aston Martin DB5, DB6, DBS V8 1963-76, Cobra,
Damler SP250, DeTomaso Deuville, Long Champ 1972>,
Jaguar 420 1967, XKE 4.2 9/68-71, XKE III VI 2 1971-74,
XJS, XJ12 1969-77, Lamborghini, Jensen Interceptor
MK 1111973-78, Lotus Ellie 1974-80, Maserati (all models)
Mercedes Benz (refer to application), $26.25


64325561 19-1208 2.125" A Alfa Guilia 101 1600 1963-68, Austin healey 3000 MK2 BJ8
1964-67, Jaguar XKE 4.2 9/68-71, Lotus Cortina 1965-67
Elan+2 68-69, MGC GT 10/67-69, Rover 2000 & TC, 8/66-71
Sunbeam Alpine Ser III, V 1963-65, Triumph GT6 1967-7/68
TR4A, TR250 65-69, Volvo P1800 61-68, TR3's, Damler $25.50


64325703 1.685" A Triumph Spitfire MK 119/63-9167, Lotus Elan 62> $23.50


64325809 19-1161 1.5915" A Aston Martin DB5, DB6,DBS 1983-72, Alfa 2600 8/63-68
Jaguar 420 1967, XKE2 1971-74, XJ6, XJ12 1969-9173
Jenson Interceptor MK3 1973-76, Lotus Elite 1974-80,
Rover 3500S 1970-71, Mercedes (see application) $22.50


64325863 19-1223 1.188" A Aston Martin DB5, DB6, DBS, DBS V8 1963-76, Cobra,
DeTomaso Deaulville, Long Champ 1972>, Jensen
Interceptor MK 1111973-76, Maserati (all models) $22.00


64325873 19-1209 1.334" A Lotus Elan 1962-76, Maserati, Peugeot $22.00


64326017 1.060" A Saab 1971-84, etc $22.00


64326616 19-1213 1.892" F CD6783 Bentley, RR 1972-85 (can also use 19-1013) $26.00
6432691 1.591" F CD4073 Bentley, RR 1970-84 $26.00


64327369 19-1013 1.892" C DeLoreon, XJS 1980-91, Lotus Esprit 1980-84,
Morgan +8, 1980-86, Triumph Spitfire $26.00


64328325 Dunlop 2.125" G Jaguar 3.8S front, etc. $37.00


64328332 Dunlop 2.250" G Jaguar MKI0, 420G front , etc. $37.00


64328397 19-1211 1.687" G Jaguar MK10, 420G, 3.8S rear $37.00


64932586 19-1213 1.892" F Aston Martin, Jensen, Maserati, RR, Bentley $24.00


6499888 WRPA 1 1.888" M Pin type piston (German) VW, Porsch (no snap ring groove) $26.50


6499889 WRPA 2 1.888" H Pin type piston (German) VW, Porsch (snap ring groove) $26.50


64999888 Dunlop 1.875" G Alfa 1962-67 front with Dunlop Caliper's $37.00


???????? Ate#1? 1.3365" K Unknown application (help, request sample) $23.50


???????? Ate#2? 1.571" K Unknown application (help, request sample) $23.50
???????? Ate#4? 1.4945" L Unknown application (help, request sample) snap ring groove $32.00


JLM2191P Ate#3 2.360" J JLM2191P Jag XJ40 1990 > (front 1.929 high) $39.00


32321794 19-1159 2.360" O Jag XJ 1987 to 89 (front 2.080" high) Girling 1 piston $39.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***UPDATE***
January 21st 08:40 est
After reading Paddy's post I looked at the GT6 and Cortina calipers some more and the external diameter is the same as is the mounting distance to the rotor. The only difference that I can see is the internal diameter (distance from the stub axle is 1/4 inch less) on the Cortina caliper. I do not know if this will be a problem or not.

Calipers show near equal offset from the bracket mount to the rotor.
Image
Type 16 GT6 caliper directly above the Cortina caliper with the pad retaining hole in alignment show the Cortina Caliper has more meat in between the lugs and closer to the stub axle centerline.
Image
Last edited by garyeanderson on Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPost by: paddy » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:13 am

Before getting new rotors I would do a trial fit of the calipers you have. I suspect they may foul on the hub. I understood that the function of the larger caliper bracket is twofold - to accommodate the wider lug spacing, but also to position the caliper further from the centre of the hub to accommodate the larger rotors.

I'm pretty sure that you do need the larger caliper bracket and 3.5" calipers to accommodate the larger rotors - this is what was on the GT6 and everything I've read says that this is also what was on the Plus 2.

Happy to be proved wrong of course ...

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PostPost by: cabc26b » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:34 am

Frank,

I started to use "gold line" out of Seattle for old unknown quantity brake calipers - they do the job for very little over the cost of the parts and given what a pain un-sticking the pistons are, its well worth -

G
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:19 pm

Well its cold out today so I thought I would look a little bit deeper into the Cortina type 16 caliper on the knock-on uprights. I was too lazy to do a proper job and take things all apart so I dug up all the loose stuff I had and puts some bolts in and took the photos.

Here are my findings...

Because I didn't have a loose knock-on upright with stub axle and caliper bracket I used a bolt-on upright, stub axle and type 14 caliper bracket for demonstration in the first 3 photos. There is a GT6 caliper bracket layed over on top of the stock type 14 bracket and clocked to the left until it lined up fairly close. as you can see (or not see) the holes of the type 14 bracket are further inboard than the type 16 caliper bracket that is layed on top.
Image

Image

Image

Elan knock-on upright with cortina caliper on the left and the GT6 setup on the right
Image

Clearance on the 1/2 inch wide 10 inch diameter rotor of the GT6 as it should be.
Image

This picture show a well worn stock Elan 9.5 inch rotor with the Cortina Caliper, a 10 rotor is doubtful without a bit of grinding. you can just see the (thin .032 inch) washer in between the caliper and caliper bracket
Image

Elan knock-on upright with Cortina caliper with a .032 spacer between the the caliper and the mounting bracket had a minimal clearance and still hits the pegs on the knock-on hub. there is no way a 10 inch rotor would work with this setup.
Image

GT6 upright with GT6 caliper show lot of clearance with 10 inch diameter rotor just as you would expect
Image

So this is a bit of a sh!tbag excercise in why a Cortina type 16 caliper is more than likely a waste of time. I have seen enough that it would be a rather half assed thing to pursue and I won't spend much more time on this post. If you want big brakes you really need to find the GT6 Calipers and Caliper bracket along with the dust shields too, because I bent the type 14 ones (again because I didn't want to disassemble the knock-on hubs to do a proper job). I suppose you could grind them to fit but you need enough of the GT6 stuff anyway so if you want to use dust shield buy them too, besides the way the GT6 type 16 caliper bracket clocks the the mounting bracket it most likely won't fit at all.

********************************************************
The following was added 1-25-2010
Here is a link that goes through the rebuild of the type 16p caliper and discusses the various GT6 differences of the 16p and 16pb

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technica ... /Front.htm

Spitbits has rotors for $35,
http://www.spitbits.com/store/26-ROTOR- ... 8C314.aspx

all of the Spitbits stocked GT6 brake parts
http://www.spitbits.com/store/Braking-S ... s-C39.aspx

Sales:
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I forget the owners name but it was the best price I could find on brake parts back when I was doing a few in 2002.

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PostPost by: twincamman » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:52 am

I sure miss Gary////Ed
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:51 am

Same here.

I'm aware there were arguments both on and off forum, but on balance I think Gary was a very knowledgeable and helpful guy. I know he rubbed some folks up the wrong way but nobody is perfect and his posts were usually very detailed.

If you're still reading Gary, why not come back for a spell now the dust has settled ?

Brian
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PostPost by: Chancer » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:05 am

Hear hear, my sentiments exactly.

I would love to see how the sows ear and whatever the other project was called are progressing.
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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:46 am

Ed, you must be really bored to be on a five year old thread about GT6 calipers. Yes, I, too, miss Gary.
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PostPost by: twincamman » Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:20 pm

My car 26r s2 33 has TR GT 6 brake discs and A/R calipers at 30 bucks FOR NEW DISCS from TR it is a lot cheaper than 250 pounds from another supplier in the UK BBBUUUTTT YES the cold and snow has me looking around in here :D …ed
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PostPost by: Famous Frank » Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:41 am

Gary showed up at LOG 34 in his pickup and with his dog. What's his dog's name again? It was good to see him. Same Gary. He stopped by some place on the way and scored some great parts at the right price. I miss him on the forum too. Maybe I'm not as sensitive as some people. He's always been helpful to me.

Frank
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