Lotus Elan

Tightening flexible brake pipes.

PostPost by: billwill » Sat May 04, 2013 11:37 pm

Has anyone come up with a good method of holding a flexible brake pipe union still while you do up the cap nut of the hard brake pipe?

The hex part of the flexible pipe end sits in the bracket on the chassis, but it sort of looks as if the bracket was designed foe much bigger hex sizes, so that it would not be able to turn. Unfortunately the clearance is now insufficient to get a spanner in there, but too big to hold the hex stationary.

Jamming a flat bladed screwdriver in there does not seem to be sufficient either.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: robertverhey » Sat May 04, 2013 11:45 pm

No joy with a flare nut spanner on the flexible hose side? That's what I used to get 'em out, after 46 years......9/16 from memory. But my flare nut spanners have a very "square" profile on the side, so they really get right in close.
robertverhey
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 781
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPost by: billwill » Sun May 05, 2013 12:27 am

I'm not sure what a flare nut spanner is?

<later>

Ah, these:
Image

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6pc-Imperial- ... 1117642233

I never knew the name of those open ring spanners.
Last edited by billwill on Sun May 05, 2013 12:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: robertverhey » Sun May 05, 2013 12:36 am

Also called brake pipe spanner, like a ring spanner with a section missing?
robertverhey
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 781
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPost by: billwill » Sun May 05, 2013 12:48 am

I don't have any of those at the moment. I guess I will buy some real soon now.

However it might be necessary to grind some of the outer away to fit in that really narrow bracket on the Elan chassis..
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: danwasdahl » Mon May 06, 2013 12:52 pm

Thanks for posting this question- I was in the same quandry. I'll modify the appropriate flare nut wrench and give it a try.
1969 elan DHC
danwasdahl
New-tral
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 29 Dec 2012
Location: Massillon, Ohio, usa

PostPost by: billwill » Mon May 06, 2013 7:03 pm

I spent a few hours today, trying to buy a 9/16 imperial flare nut spanner, without any luck.
Three shops I visited had only metric ones and they are quite expensive so I decided not to buy a 15mm one,

I may open the side of one of my ring spanners or the original Lotus box spanner (if there was a 9/16 in those).
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: c42 » Mon May 06, 2013 8:29 pm

Hi Bill

Not always the best quality but I have used these in the past

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... wrench-set

A ring spanner will not be strong enough if a part is cut out of the ring.

Good Luck
John
User avatar
c42
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 309
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Location: Rugby, Warwickshire

PostPost by: robertverhey » Mon May 06, 2013 10:30 pm

Yes as John says a modified ring spanner will flex under pressure and round your fittings...

Ironically, the ones that have served me best are the cheapest ones I picked up from a Repco bargain bin many years back.

Image

Pic shows the cheap one on left and expensive gedore on right. latter has a chamfer around the flats that doesn't grip as well as the cheap one which covers more of the nut surface

Go figure.....

A whole set will put a big dent in your wallet, but they do seem to be available individually for a reasonable price in UK, eg http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Sykes-Pickav ... 27d1c6d1a2
robertverhey
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 781
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPost by: billwill » Tue May 07, 2013 1:29 am

The thicker state of a proper flare nut spanner is not going to be an issue as the hex part of the HEL brake hose is no thicker than a standard nut.

A standard flare nut spanner is going to be too much excess diameter to fit between the hex on the hose and the bracket. Ring spanners typically are thinner metal on the 'ring' and even that may need to be thinned to fit between the hex and the chassis bracket, but on the other hand the chassis will prevent the cut ring from opening further..


I dunno what Lotus were thinking of when they designed those brackets; it doesn't make much sense.
BrakeHoseBracket.jpg and

Surely most owner on here have changed their brake hoses at some stage and encountered this problem?
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: robertverhey » Tue May 07, 2013 7:51 am

Duplicate post
Last edited by robertverhey on Tue May 07, 2013 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
robertverhey
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 781
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPost by: robertverhey » Tue May 07, 2013 7:52 am

Yes I see what you mean. I guess lotus thought that the two raised sides would hold the nut from turning...but 40 years + later, and rust and time etc, that ain't gonna happen!. Perhaps worth flattening out the two folds so that a flare nut spanner can get in there.....
robertverhey
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 781
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPost by: c42 » Tue May 07, 2013 12:53 pm

Hi Bill

I have just re read your original post. Do you not have a nut which clamps the flexible pipe to the bracket?

Regards
John
User avatar
c42
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 309
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Location: Rugby, Warwickshire

PostPost by: c42 » Tue May 07, 2013 1:09 pm

Hi Bill

I thought a picture (even of dubious quality!)may help.

Brake.jpg and


Regards
John
User avatar
c42
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 309
Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Location: Rugby, Warwickshire

PostPost by: billwill » Tue May 07, 2013 1:51 pm

c42 wrote:Hi Bill

I have just re read your original post. Do you not have a nut which clamps the flexible pipe to the bracket?

Regards
John



Yes, but it is nearly impossible to do it up tight, because you can't hold the hex of the hose itself.
If you try to hold the metal part of the hose (the crimp) it can turn relative to the hex part.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4510
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: billmoore42 and 6 guests