Lotus Elan

Tyre question?

PostPost by: dougal cawley » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:28 pm

Keith Scarfe wrote:So Mike what did you end up getting after all that? What are you running on now?

I am currently trying to decide what to get for my new Miller wheels. Do I go for the Longstone Pirelli's at £400 a set? or re use my current Vedrestrain's (a bit old now) or get some modern shopping car tyres?

Are the Cinturato really better than modern tyres? Can anyone on here give an real world unbiased view? What difference would I notice?


I know you cannot consider me unbiased. However the point isn't that they are better than modern tyres. Modern tyres are better in the right environment. However on your car the Cinturato are better because they are a carcass that is designed to go with your kind of car. so the design is more suited.

they are also Pirellli. which in my mind are one of the worlds best tyre manufacturers. these Classsioc tyres they are making are designed aas a promotional job as well as profit making so the quality is the muts nuts.

To my knowledge there is not another H rated 145R13 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirell ... -ca67.html

I have them on my Elite, and they are epic!
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PostPost by: JJDraper » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:41 pm

I am not a track driver, but use my +2 regularly. I changed this summer from my old minilites to refurbed steels fitted with 185/70 x13 Uniroyals, as I have used this type for the last few sets when running the 14" minilites. I have never tried anything exotic from Michelin, but I can say the tyres I have used feel pretty good to me... and last around 25k miles to the wear indicators. It takes a bit of messing about with tyre pressures to get them to feel right, but then they work for me. At around 30 quid a wheel fitted, that seems a bargain to me. On reflection, going to 185 on the steels may be a bit excessive, so I will have to try and wear them out faster than the last set...

In the meantime the Minilites have been refurbed and are in use over Winter, and fitted with 175/65 x14" Tyres. These feel better (more nimble) at lower speeds - 185 may be over-tyred.

Picture attached for comparison.

Just a thought, if I had always used the tyres described as the 'Mutts Nuts' over the last ten years, I would be nearly 12grand (UK) out of pocket....

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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:19 pm

Hi

Yep genuine period tyres do cost more i'm afraid. and it isn't ever going to work out if price is the main determining factor when choosing a tyre im afraid. but i think an interesting pointer is that the 175 section feel nicer and more nimble to drive on. I would suggest nimbleness was very much part of the joy of an Elan. on top of the thinner section being noiocer when you have a period carcass as well that nimbleness will be enhanced even more.
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PostPost by: Rob P » Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:59 pm

Afterrnoon all,
Having come to the Elan this morning I found that the rear drivers side tyre was totally deflated. Tyre has a tube so when trying to inflate the tyre I found the air was seeping out past the valve so assumed the tube was shot.

Tyre taken off and off I popped to the local Tyre depot, first one basically refused to even look at the Tyre and Tube as the tyre says tubeless and they were questioning why it has a tube in the first place, explained that these were recommended by a Lotus Specialist and that they insisted on installing Tubes. (Phoenix Motorsport).

Took it to a second garage, same result. I'm now at a loss after reading various posts as to what to do, do I take it back to Ollie at Phoenix and get a new tube or let the local guy try and fit the tyre without a tube and see if it seals?

Would welcome thoughts but guess I might open a tin of worms

Rob P (Worried and confused Elan S4 owner) :? :(

BTW tyres are Uniroyal Rainexpert 3 which were recommended when I bought the car as the tyres it had on were a mix of various makes
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:36 am

what size is the tyre?

If you have a 175/65R14 tyre as mentioned earlier then that should not fit an inner tube. There are not inner tubes for tyres lower than 70% profile. when these extra low profile tyres came out they did still fit inner tubes for a short period, and then stopped.

any full profile tyre, ie tyre sizes that the Elan works best with (145R13, 155R13 or 165R13) can fit an inner tube if you want. regardless of weather it says tubeless or not.

Any 70% profile tyre, (ie 175/70R13 or 185/70R13) can fit an inner tube if you want. regardless of weather it says tubeless or not.

All wire wheels should fit inner tubes. I know there are wire wheel manufacturers that specify tubeless wire wheels, but we have seen too many failures https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gce9-VU_X_s

Very shortly after tubeless tyre technology was developed they also developed the safety hump (see attachment). This improves the safety of a tubeless tyre. I know that some cars in period were run tubeless without this safety rib However not for long. they soon developed the safety hump. So i suggest that if you don't have the safety hump, fit a tube.

There is one application i know of, which is the first of the 911 RS Porsche from 1973 where Pirelli developed the 215/60VR15 Cinturato CN36 for the rear. (185/70 on the front). this was a tube type 60% profile tyre. and to my knowledge the first 60% profile tyre fitted to a road car. I think it lasted about a year before they changed it to tube tubeless. We have had difficulties with customer fitting tubes in low profile tyres.

If your tyre is less than 70% profile fitted with an inner tube, i would question about weather your insurance would cover you.

However 70% of full profile can run tubes.

your cars will drive better on 145R13, 155R13 or 165R13 tyres they can all fit tubes.

If you modify your cars to suit wider tyres, (stiffen the suspension, add adverse camber & add fatter rims) they won't be as nimble or nice to drive. but if you don't care about the drive and just want cheap tyres then with a 175/70R13 and 185/70R13 you can still fit inner tubes.

However if you are dubious, then the Michelin XAS on here https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... tml#page=1 are tube type tyres and must fit an inner tube
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PostPost by: Rob P » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:52 am

Thanks Dougal,

Tyres are 165 - 70 - R13 and are on standard Elan Steel wheels. I guess the next step is to go back to the tyre fitter and get them to consider fitting a Tube then and if they don't then I need to find someone who will

Rob P
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:52 am

Don't muck about with inner tubes. Michelin are by miles the best. I would think most tyre sheds will be able to get them.

If you struggle we have them here https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... tubes.html


There are some shocking tubes out there that feel like grease proof paper that just fail
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PostPost by: 661 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:21 am

dougal cawley wrote:Don't muck about with inner tubes. Michelin are by miles the best. I would think most tyre sheds will be able to get them.

If you struggle we have them here https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... tubes.html


There are some shocking tubes out there that feel like grease proof paper that just fail


Out of interest, is that a picture of you in the link?
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PostPost by: 69S4 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:58 am

dougal cawley wrote:Don't muck about with inner tubes. Michelin are by miles the best. I would think most tyre sheds will be able to get them.

There are some shocking tubes out there that feel like grease proof paper that just fail


A quick look at the price list suggests it's unlikely I'll be splashing out on Michelin tyres anytime soon but I'm with you on the tubes. Michelin all the way both in the Elan and, if I can get them, in the half a dozen bikes I have that need them. It's certainly getting harder to buy them though. Years back every bike shop would have them in stock and my local car tyre depot could get them for next day if they didn't have them. Now it's a lot harder. The people working in the (same) tyre dept now just look at me blankly when I ask about tubes and it's a diminishing group of specialist shops for the bikes.

I attended a small group seminar with a technical manager from Continental tyres back in Feb and asked him specifically about using tubes inside tubeless tyres. He was of the opinion that there wasn't a problem and that the interior tubeless 'ridges' would have little or no effect over the lifetime of a tyre.
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:18 pm

661 wrote:
dougal cawley wrote:Don't muck about with inner tubes. Michelin are by miles the best. I would think most tyre sheds will be able to get them.

If you struggle we have them here https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... tubes.html


There are some shocking tubes out there that feel like grease proof paper that just fail


Out of interest, is that a picture of you in the link?


Yep. thats me
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:20 pm

69S4 wrote:I attended a small group seminar with a technical manager from Continental tyres back in Feb and asked him specifically about using tubes inside tubeless tyres. He was of the opinion that there wasn't a problem and that the interior tubeless 'ridges' would have little or no effect over the lifetime of a tyre.


Agreed!

However did he mention low profile tyres?
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PostPost by: 69S4 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:44 pm

dougal cawley wrote:
69S4 wrote:

However did he mention low profile tyres?


No, it wasn't mentioned - mainly because I've stuck with 80 profile tyres on the Elan and it didn't occur to me. On the face of it it does make sense that low profile tyres would put tubes under stress and should be avoided. Tubes are remarkably malleable though - a few years back I donated my 2.25" x 17" spare tube to a fellow biker stuck on the autobahn in southern Germany. He put it into his 5.00" x 18" wheel and rode the bike back to Cornwall without a problem. Not to be advised but beggars can't be choosers.
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PostPost by: mwhitaker » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:54 pm

Hello to all,
This is a follow up report to prior discussions with Dougal Cawley and others from last year in regard to tire choices/fitting for the Elan. My car is a 69 S4 and I ran into problems with clearance when I originally tried to fit the Michelin XAS 155-13 FF to my Panasport alloys. I had the front suspension-TTR/GAZ- too low and after adjustment fitted Achilles 155/701-13 to tide me through while trying to obtain the original type steel rims.

After a bit of a wait, I now have the new wheels from Sue Miller via Ray at RD enterprises here in the US( thanks
Ray). I have mounted my Michelins, rechecked/adjusted my suspension to relatively stock ride height and with new Lotocones out back. The mounting/balancing chaps found the rims tough to balance and said I should give them a try anyway. Well, everything Dougal described about the XAS is spot one-what a fabulous tire for this car. Smooth, lovely grip and feel with nice self centering and decreased nervousness up front, perhaps due to appropriate 80 series dimensions. No clearance issues and they look fab, especially with new three ear spinners on new silver rims-just need the embelllishers now! Wheels seem fine with no balance issues up to 75mph so far.....

Obviously, this exercise has been expensive with my costs of the tires at $200 a piece, $400 for the rims over here and $180 for removal tool which works a treat. Tubes from Dougal as they were unavailable here! I plan on 1k miles per year so length of service is not critical. Next set of Michelins I will buy from Dougal since carriage is included and his input on the forum has been really helpful to myself and others.

My suggestion is bite the bullet and go for the Michelins. The driving dynamics, lovely ride and look will outweigh the cost if you can manage it.

Cheers, Mark
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:58 am

Cheers Mark

I’m glad you like them.

It is always a relief when someone really does like tyres I encourage people to fit to their cars. The price is right for what they are. But I can’t deny, it does add up to a big credit card bill. However on balance with the driving enjoyment I believe it’s worth it.
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