Lotus Elan

Tyre question?

PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:12 pm

Surely you would to discuss CoF in the arguement.
Just saying X brand is better/faster than Y brand seems meaningless without a reference to friction figure.
I found that a brand of well known UK sold tyres were in 3 different compounds for the same model number.
It must be like comparing Apples with oranges otherwise.
Kick the tyres and light them fires...!!!!!!!
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:43 pm

661 wrote:Dougal, whilst we have your attention....
Is there a tyre that would come to mind for a full out race Elan but to be used on a track day where tyre regs didn't apply?
6" rims , dry conditions.
I was leaning towards Avon CR6ZZs


Actually i have rethunk this and i would say Cinturato.

I have often wondered if the fact the Cinturato CN36 was so much lighter than the CR6ZZ they might actually return better lap times. But was unsure, as the compound of the CR6ZZ is such a good track tyre. I have driven on the CR6ZZ and they are great.

Either the CN36 or the CR6ZZ will be more fun than a modern tyre.

However, as you are talking about track day tyres, you don't need to waste the extra money on the CR6ZZ. because actual lap times aren't important. the Cinturato is actually V rated, where the CR6ZZ is only H. But both these tyres will work well, but you can save a few bob with the Pirelli. The CN36 is a real bargain. (and they look cool)

However the only real true way to gauge weather a tyre is better for you and you car than another is testing.
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PostPost by: 661 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:54 pm

dougal cawley wrote:
661 wrote:Dougal, whilst we have your attention....
Is there a tyre that would come to mind for a full out race Elan but to be used on a track day where tyre regs didn't apply?
6" rims , dry conditions.
I was leaning towards Avon CR6ZZs


However the only real true way to gauge weather a tyre is better for you and you car than another is testing.

This is true and sadly for me I'm not in quite as good a position as yourself to try them out.
The Pirelli sounds like something that might be worth considering for the road Elan and I'll continue to scratch my head for the 26GTS as it's still in bits.



Do you do low mileage returns...…?
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PostPost by: pereirac » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:22 am

Just noticed that French made 155HR13 Michelin XAS tyres are cheaper in the US than in the UK or even France? :? $193 each at Coker Tires, shame shipping from the US is expensive! I don't suppose Longstone tyres would price match :D
Carl

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PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:29 am

Hi Carl,
nice try we'll wait for the reply.
Imho i would not buy Cinturato which for me are no good in the wet and scream in the dry when on the limit

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:50 am

The ones I used were Dunlop which was the control tyre in Australia back in the early 90's. Yes you use the formula ford front tyres all round on the Elan. I presume the historic Avon would be closest to what i used.

I am still a couple of seconds slower on modern Yoko A-048R's compared to the Dunlop Formula Fords around Phillip Island despite have about 40+ hp more and a much better set up suspension. But I was also racing much more back then so I have probably lost a couple of seconds as a driver.

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PostPost by: pereirac » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:52 am

alan.barker wrote:Hi Carl,
nice try we'll wait for the reply.
Imho i would not buy Cinturato which for me are no good in the wet and scream in the dry when on the limit

Alan


One has to try, the tyres were £100 each not so long ago. Not interested in racing, just want decent original size tyres for the car which won't rub...

Coming to Brittany again next year for La Coupe Florio? Will be at the Caux Retro in a few weeks time...Giving Caen a miss this year.
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PostPost by: JonB » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:14 pm

@Dougal

Your web site says:
www.longstonetyres.co.uk wrote:If you have a Lotus Elan Plus 2 they originally fitted a 165x13 tyre, the best option is the 165HR13 Michelin XAS. Some people like to fit a wider tyre, if that’s you, we would recommend the 185/70VR13 Pirelli Cinturato CN36


I'm currently running Kumho Solus KH17 165/70R13 tyres on my Plus 2. I have handling problems; notably it is low on caster so is vague in a straight line and I have no self centring force on the steering either. It's been suggested that fitting an 80 profile tyre would allow the caster to have more effect (I understand why but won't explain it here). So... you suggest 185s but will they rub against the springs? Clearance is very tight.

Also, as the Solus tyres are square shouldered, might I be suffering the roll effects mentioned previously? It has long suffered from roll steering behaviour that I have struggled to correct (so far unsuccessfully).

Cheers
JonB

Edit: what about these? https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/tyres ... 1-wsw-1047
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PostPost by: pauljones » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:30 pm

Jon.
I have 185s on mine.

No rubbing, very good directional control in the pointy bits. Not twitchy but direct. Im looking at my next set of tyres being same size.

I will say i have standard plus 2 suspension.

Paul
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PostPost by: pereirac » Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:05 pm

When I originally bought my Elan it had Minilites with 165/70s fitted. The front tyres used to rub, I think, on the antiroll bar if you turned the steering wheel to full lock. Never had this problem with steel wheels and 155s
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:54 am

pereirac wrote:Just noticed that French made 155HR13 Michelin XAS tyres are cheaper in the US than in the UK or even France? :? $193 each at Coker Tires, shame shipping from the US is expensive! I don't suppose Longstone tyres would price match :D


Hey Up Carl.

if you don't ask you don't get, as i always say.

i wonder why Cokers tyres are cheaper. We buy them at the same price direct from Michelin. I wonder how many of these actually get sold in the States. My guess is that it is an exchange rate thing, which has possibly changed since he bought them. What date code are they?

We don't do a price match however if you ring up and haggle on a set we can give a club discount. talk to one of the boys in the office 00 44 1302 711123. we generally give free carriage on Michelin or Pirelli tyres too.
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:56 am

Hi Bob

JonB wrote:@Dougal

Your web site says:
www.longstonetyres.co.uk wrote:If you have a Lotus Elan Plus 2 they originally fitted a 165x13 tyre, the best option is the 165HR13 Michelin XAS. Some people like to fit a wider tyre, if that’s you, we would recommend the 185/70VR13 Pirelli Cinturato CN36


I'm currently running Kumho Solus KH17 165/70R13 tyres on my Plus 2. I have handling problems; notably it is low on caster so is vague in a straight line and I have no self centring force on the steering either. It's been suggested that fitting an 80 profile tyre would allow the caster to have more effect (I understand why but won't explain it here). So... you suggest 185s but will they rub against the springs? Clearance is very tight.


My suggestion wouldn't be 185, My suggestion is fit 165R13 Michelin XAS https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalo ... gory/2618/ (though i am currently out of stock, we should have them again soon. If you leave a back order with us we will contact you when they are here)

Without doubt going back to the correct diameter will put your foot print back in the right place in relation to the rest of your steering components, which will help your steering and handling, Lotus built the car knowing what size tyre they were planning on using, and all these things are designed to go together. Also a proper classic 80 profile tyre will have a carcass that compliments your car better.

Then there is the fantastic XAS which as a tyre carcass was developed in conjunction with the Citroen DS to improve the self centering of the steering, and dramatically improve the directional stability of cars of that period, and made them more suited to the kind of roads we now drive on, (dual carriage ways motorways etc).

The comments on the web site about the 185/70R13, are saying that for those people out there who have wider wheels, or like the look of the car better on a 185/70R13 then fitting the Cinturato https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalo ... gory/2618/ will diminish the derogatory effects of fitting an oversize tyre. fitting a modern 185/70R13 tyre will have a less suitable carcass. If an Elan + 2 would be better on a 185/70R13 tyre, our mate Colin would have fitted it.

JonB wrote:Also, as the Solus tyres are square shouldered, might I be suffering the roll effects mentioned previously? It has long suffered from roll steering behaviour that I have struggled to correct (so far unsuccessfully).


You can't polish a turd.

I have had XAS tyres on a few cars. they really make a difference. I love selling the XAS, because i get so many people contacting me afterwards saying how happy they are with the dramatic improvements it makes to the driveability of their car.

Without doubt 165HR13 XAS will make a massive improvement.

JonB wrote:Cheers
JonB

Edit: what about these? https://www.vintagetyres.com/shop/tyres ... 1-wsw-1047


Pff!

I think we all know the answer to that. the only attraction to that is the slightly amusing price.

My skin is crawling at the thought of seeing an Elan (or any Lotus for that matter) on white wall tyres. White wall tyres are never good handling tyres in my experience. I would rather push my Lotus Elite than drive it on white wall tyres.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:13 pm

I used to drive on XAS and XAS FF tyres and they were good 30 years ago for the Elan but the world has moved on IMHO

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PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:17 pm

True Rohan,
but the original set up on the Elans and +2 Elans was for this old style of Tyre.
Imho if you fit a modern Tyre why not but you will need to retune the Suspension to get the most from them.
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:52 pm

Alan is right, yet there are a couple more details.

Manufacturing quality control has improved over the years, and the current XAS range benefit from that. we do not get complaints about Michelin tyres. If you talk to any tyre dealer, they might have an angle on what tyre they want to sell you, based on profit, or they might consider that if they offer you a cheaper tyre it might be easier to make a sale. But if you asked them, as a mate, without the issue of cost or financial gain effecting them, and said "if all tyres cost the same and money was no object, which tyres would you fit on your car." more often than not they would say Michelin. because when spanking it down the motorway with a car full of kids, you know a Michelin will never let you down. I would suggest Pirelli are also up there, with the added advantage that Pirelli take a dull, dirty grudge purchase like a tyre, give you the quality yet at the same time some how make it sexy. without being racist it is an Italian thing. A four door doesn't sound exciting, but a QuattroPorte; oomph! and phwarr!

in the same way, that because technology has moved on, you are guaranteed that every tyre you buy from a top branded tyre will be just as perfect as the next tyre. Technology has also improved the compounds in consistency and quality. you will probably benefit more in the wet. We are not allowed to use the same chemicals that were used in the '60s and '70s, which is good, and we just use better, greener ones. so we get the right tyre carcass that presents that small area of foot print to the road in a manner that compliments your cars set up, but when some nobhead pulls out in front of you in the wet, or a small child jumps out from behind a parked car you are more likely to go home with your car and your conscience in good order.

Oo that was all boring and business like. how about we lighten things a little with the first episode of our Vintage Top Gear series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jFqB4M ... ZSWsg0qkkh

Children should be brought up mucking about with Austin 7's like our friend Mr Chapman
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